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"The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider with the crushed crash attenuator, but the vehicle logs show that

"The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider with the crushed crash attenuator, but the vehicle logs show that no action was taken." This seems to be trying to suggest that the driver had 6 seconds of clear driving-toward-death time to correct for the car's actions without explicitly making such a ridiculous statement (while also throwing in the crushed crash attenuator). If the car makes a quick change in direction due to an autopilot error, a driver at speed would have very little time to make an effective correction. Depending on the system behavior, it could be akin to having a passenger reach over and yank the wheel. I'd honestly rather Tesla just said "ongoing investigation" instead of being so transparently evasive.

lozenge 9y ago
They also said in their first post they would respect the family by not updating until the investigation was over. The investigation isn't over but here they are trying to manage their image with confusing and misleading partial information.
utnick 9y ago
Yup this also mean that Tesla's radar and camera systems had 5 seconds to realize it was driving straight into an unmoving concrete barrier and did nothing...
- Someone1234 9y ago
  What's really odd is, in my Subaru which has eyesight, if I drove straight towards that barrier the breaks would engage. Eyesight uses two visual cameras, about two feet apart, and uses the parallax between them to judge depth/distance (in the same way human eyesight judges depth). So even if Tesla's autopilot steered the vehicle towards that divider, shouldn't the auto-braking system have engaged to avert the accident? Tesla vehicles also have visual image cameras as well as radar based ones, so the information density is even higher than Subaru's system. I guess what I am getting at is: Is auto-braking disabled while autopilot is on? Wouldn't leaving auto-braking enabled (particularly using the visual cameras) offer a second layer of safety is autopilot made an error? I raised the same issue when a Tesla with autopilot on drove straight into the side of a truck and the driver was decapitated. The discussion was all about "well radar couldn't distinguish it from road signs!" while ignoring that a Tesla has visual (optical) cameras front and center.
  - djsumdog 9y ago
    I've wondered about those Subaru's that seem to have two build in dash cams right at the top of the windshield.
  - ricardobeat 9y ago
    In the case of the truck, it was established that neither the driver nor the cameras would have identified the side of the trailer against the sky, and it's still ultimately the driver's responsibility to be alert and avoid such crashes. See the report here: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2016/INCLA-PE16007-7876.PDF https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2016/INCLA-PE16007-7876.PDF
    - chaboud 9y ago
      From the report “NHTSA’s crash reconstruction indicates that the tractor trailer should have been visible to the Tesla driver for at least seven seconds prior to impact.” Unless someone is operating trucks with adaptive optical camouflage, I think that the driver would be expected to note the presence of a big rig. Binocular cameras and radar may be expected to do the same, too. (Note: Tesla models, to the best of my knowledge, do not have binocular cameras)
  - echlebek 9y ago
    I have a Subaru with eyesight too. The auto-braking in Subarus with eyesight can engage in two circumstances that I'm aware of. 1: The car is travelling at 50 km/hr or less, and perceives an oncoming obstacle. 2: The car is using adaptive cruise control, and perceives that it is getting too close to the vehicle ahead. I think there are some circumstances where the designers decided that auto-braking would actually be worse. For instance, at highway speed, it's usually not possible to come to a stop quickly enough to avoid a stationary object that has somehow suddenly come into your path. Say, a deer. It's best to take your feet off both pedals and swerve around the obstacle. This reduces speed while also allowing maneuvering, something that braking works against. It also gives drivers behind you more time to react. If the Tesla system works similarly I would expect similar design decisions. However, I would expect autopilot on a Tesla to function similarly to adaptive cruise control, which will jam on the brakes when it thinks it's going to hit something. This has actually engaged erroneously on two occasions for me, on windy roads, so I only use adaptive cruise control in straight-arrow highway situations now. I've noticed that in certain weather conditions the cameras will stop being able to get good enough data to make decisions. The car disables the system and notifies me with a warning indicator. tl;dr - auto-breaking based on parallax cameras can't be deployed in every situation, and sometimes the cameras can't get a clear shot.

lozenge 9y ago

They also said in their first post they would respect the family by not updating until the investigation was over. The investigation isn't over but here they are trying to manage their image with confusing and misleading partial information.

utnick 9y ago

Yup this also mean that Tesla's radar and camera systems had 5 seconds to realize it was driving straight into an unmoving concrete barrier and did nothing...

Someone1234 9y ago
What's really odd is, in my Subaru which has eyesight, if I drove straight towards that barrier the breaks would engage. Eyesight uses two visual cameras, about two feet apart, and uses the parallax between them to judge depth/distance (in the same way human eyesight judges depth). So even if Tesla's autopilot steered the vehicle towards that divider, shouldn't the auto-braking system have engaged to avert the accident? Tesla vehicles also have visual image cameras as well as radar based ones, so the information density is even higher than Subaru's system. I guess what I am getting at is: Is auto-braking disabled while autopilot is on? Wouldn't leaving auto-braking enabled (particularly using the visual cameras) offer a second layer of safety is autopilot made an error? I raised the same issue when a Tesla with autopilot on drove straight into the side of a truck and the driver was decapitated. The discussion was all about "well radar couldn't distinguish it from road signs!" while ignoring that a Tesla has visual (optical) cameras front and center.
- djsumdog 9y ago
  I've wondered about those Subaru's that seem to have two build in dash cams right at the top of the windshield.
- ricardobeat 9y ago
  In the case of the truck, it was established that neither the driver nor the cameras would have identified the side of the trailer against the sky, and it's still ultimately the driver's responsibility to be alert and avoid such crashes. See the report here: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2016/INCLA-PE16007-7876.PDF https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2016/INCLA-PE16007-7876.PDF
  - chaboud 9y ago
    From the report “NHTSA’s crash reconstruction indicates that the tractor trailer should have been visible to the Tesla driver for at least seven seconds prior to impact.” Unless someone is operating trucks with adaptive optical camouflage, I think that the driver would be expected to note the presence of a big rig. Binocular cameras and radar may be expected to do the same, too. (Note: Tesla models, to the best of my knowledge, do not have binocular cameras)
- echlebek 9y ago
  I have a Subaru with eyesight too. The auto-braking in Subarus with eyesight can engage in two circumstances that I'm aware of. 1: The car is travelling at 50 km/hr or less, and perceives an oncoming obstacle. 2: The car is using adaptive cruise control, and perceives that it is getting too close to the vehicle ahead. I think there are some circumstances where the designers decided that auto-braking would actually be worse. For instance, at highway speed, it's usually not possible to come to a stop quickly enough to avoid a stationary object that has somehow suddenly come into your path. Say, a deer. It's best to take your feet off both pedals and swerve around the obstacle. This reduces speed while also allowing maneuvering, something that braking works against. It also gives drivers behind you more time to react. If the Tesla system works similarly I would expect similar design decisions. However, I would expect autopilot on a Tesla to function similarly to adaptive cruise control, which will jam on the brakes when it thinks it's going to hit something. This has actually engaged erroneously on two occasions for me, on windy roads, so I only use adaptive cruise control in straight-arrow highway situations now. I've noticed that in certain weather conditions the cameras will stop being able to get good enough data to make decisions. The car disables the system and notifies me with a warning indicator. tl;dr - auto-breaking based on parallax cameras can't be deployed in every situation, and sometimes the cameras can't get a clear shot.