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I'd definitely blame an airline pilot who crashed because he relied on autopilot in a situation he knew was not handled well by the autopilot. (I would also bla

I'd definitely blame an airline pilot who crashed because he relied on autopilot in a situation he knew was not handled well by the autopilot. (I would also blame the autopilot.) I don't see why the driver of a car with any kind of semi-automated system should be held to a lesser standard. It sucks that the driver died, and it sucks that the Tesla autopilot system had problems handing that kind of situation, but that does not mean the driver is blameless. He put himself and the people in the cars around him at risk by using the autopilot feature on a stretch of road where he knew it did not work well.

mirimir 9y ago
They typically are blamed.
asddddd 9y ago
Are drivers trained to use these semi-automated systems?
veemjeem 9y ago
If a plane crashes, the survival rate is pretty low. Most likely everyone on the plane is dead. People get into car accidents often enough to feel that crashing one's car rarely leads to death. Walter probably felt safe enough to use autopilot knowing that if the car crashed, he could still walk away from it.
- greedo 9y ago
  Completely untrue. The survival rate for plane crashes is extremely high.[1] 1.https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NTSB_releases_statistics_on_aircraft_accident_survivability.aspx https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NTSB_releases...
  - fourthark 9y ago
    Most of those crashes probably on the ground though?
  - baddox 9y ago
    Note the study refers to “airplane accidents,” not “plane crashes.” I suspect that the vast majority of the airplane accidents included in the denominator wouldn’t be described by the vast majority of people as “plane crashes.”
    - greedo 9y ago
      The NTSB doesn't split aircraft incidents into "accidents" and "crashes." Note that the report specifically mentions TWA Flight 800 as an accident, though the loss of life on that flight was 100%.
jschwartzi 9y ago
> I don't see why the driver of a car with any kind of semi-automated system should be held to a lesser standard. Because the driver didn't receive any training from the manufacturer. Airplane pilots, in contrast, receive a ton of training right down to how to fly a specific type of aircraft(single-engine, twin-engine, instrument flying, etc.). Additionally the manufacturer will provide training to pilots on how to operate any nifty features of the commercial aircraft. I don't believe Tesla provides any training whatsoever on how to use these features. And I'm not aware of any mechanisms preventing untrained users from activating these features. A tutorial that you can click through does not count because you do not ensure rapport with the trainee like you would in a person-to-person training. Back when cars were being commoditized the dealer would often provide training to new drivers. And in all states new drivers are required to take a practical test to demonstrate that they are competent to drive. Does Tesla require their users to prove any sort of understanding or competence before they unlock Autopilot? You might argue that requiring training sets a dangerous precedent, but users need to be made aware that the driver assistance systems are not foolproof, and the only foolproof way to do that is to require them to attend a training.
- machinehermit 9y ago
  Exactly. Tesla is beyond irresponsible with this and IMO they should be sued out of existence. It isn't a new feature on a cell phone that you just watch a youtube video on and move on with your day.
root_axis 9y ago
Pilots have extensive aviation training, the general population thinks of "autopilot" as a thing that will automatically pilot your vehicle. What did Tesla think would happen?
neurotech1 9y ago
This actually happened. A glitch with the 737-800 [0] radar altimeter caused the aircraft to go into flare (touchdown) mode at altitude resulting in the jet to basically dropping out of the sky, with rapidly decreasing airspeed. They should have been able to fly manually and safely land with a faulty radar altimeter. It is likely the crew didn't understand the significance of the fault, even though Boeing had issued previous warnings. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_1951 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_1951

mirimir 9y ago

They typically are blamed.

asddddd 9y ago

Are drivers trained to use these semi-automated systems?

veemjeem 9y ago

If a plane crashes, the survival rate is pretty low. Most likely everyone on the plane is dead. People get into car accidents often enough to feel that crashing one's car rarely leads to death. Walter probably felt safe enough to use autopilot knowing that if the car crashed, he could still walk away from it.

greedo 9y ago
Completely untrue. The survival rate for plane crashes is extremely high.[1] 1.https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NTSB_releases_statistics_on_aircraft_accident_survivability.aspx https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NTSB_releases...
- fourthark 9y ago
  Most of those crashes probably on the ground though?
- baddox 9y ago
  Note the study refers to “airplane accidents,” not “plane crashes.” I suspect that the vast majority of the airplane accidents included in the denominator wouldn’t be described by the vast majority of people as “plane crashes.”
  - greedo 9y ago
    The NTSB doesn't split aircraft incidents into "accidents" and "crashes." Note that the report specifically mentions TWA Flight 800 as an accident, though the loss of life on that flight was 100%.

jschwartzi 9y ago

> I don't see why the driver of a car with any kind of semi-automated system should be held to a lesser standard. Because the driver didn't receive any training from the manufacturer. Airplane pilots, in contrast, receive a ton of training right down to how to fly a specific type of aircraft(single-engine, twin-engine, instrument flying, etc.). Additionally the manufacturer will provide training to pilots on how to operate any nifty features of the commercial aircraft. I don't believe Tesla provides any training whatsoever on how to use these features. And I'm not aware of any mechanisms preventing untrained users from activating these features. A tutorial that you can click through does not count because you do not ensure rapport with the trainee like you would in a person-to-person training. Back when cars were being commoditized the dealer would often provide training to new drivers. And in all states new drivers are required to take a practical test to demonstrate that they are competent to drive. Does Tesla require their users to prove any sort of understanding or competence before they unlock Autopilot? You might argue that requiring training sets a dangerous precedent, but users need to be made aware that the driver assistance systems are not foolproof, and the only foolproof way to do that is to require them to attend a training.

machinehermit 9y ago
Exactly. Tesla is beyond irresponsible with this and IMO they should be sued out of existence. It isn't a new feature on a cell phone that you just watch a youtube video on and move on with your day.

root_axis 9y ago

Pilots have extensive aviation training, the general population thinks of "autopilot" as a thing that will automatically pilot your vehicle. What did Tesla think would happen?

neurotech1 9y ago

This actually happened. A glitch with the 737-800 [0] radar altimeter caused the aircraft to go into flare (touchdown) mode at altitude resulting in the jet to basically dropping out of the sky, with rapidly decreasing airspeed. They should have been able to fly manually and safely land with a faulty radar altimeter. It is likely the crew didn't understand the significance of the fault, even though Boeing had issued previous warnings. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_1951 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_1951