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The problem with discussion around any "woo woo" topics is that they don't get anywhere, which is probably the reason for the downvotes. Yes, there are studies

The problem with discussion around any "woo woo" topics is that they don't get anywhere, which is probably the reason for the downvotes. Yes, there are studies that show acupuncture could help someone give up smoking. But when you try to parse the reasons why, you end up saying things like "energy work", and "contemplative healing methodologies", which don't mean anything... or more precisely, they mean something to you, but every Alternative Medicine practitioner can redefine. So the words and language lose all meaning, its impossible to transfer knowledge or have a meaningful conversation without shared understanding of agreement on terms. I might only be saying this because my aura is blocked, and my Chi isn't flowing correctly. But should I fix that with the Kundali method, Ayahusca, a copper bracelet, healing crystals, aromatherapy, or traditional cognitive therapy?

hosh 9y ago
That really depends. Some of those methods work well for some people and not for others. Since we're laying it out on the table, I'll comment on here about those different methods. You won't be using the "Kundali" method (which I take it to mean "Kundalini"). That is a phenomena that is initiates a drastic transformation on the person's body and mind, and has its own way with the person. It may be induced and people can spontaneously have it kicked off. People usually come for treatments for side-effects from that sort of spiritual emergence, and those side-effects are often knots of resistance in the mind or body. Aura usually refers to a layer of subtle energy closer to the surface, and as such, something that as deeply transformative as Kundalini is overkill. I can say the same about Ayahuasca. She is going to have her way with you. Now, let's look at "chi isn't flowing correctly" and "it appears in the aura" -- which in the TCM modality would be the wei-qi, the guardian qi. The modern TCM practitioners will look at different physical symptoms and try to adjust things through acupuncture, acupressure, etc. However, there is a smaller subset of TCM practitioners who can directly sense the flows of the qi. For those people, Metal qi feels like Metal, and it is distinct from Earth qi or Fire qi. Meridians for these people can be directly sensed within one's body and in others, and they more or less follow the pathways already documented. Through a combination of learned knowledge and intuition, there are some adjustments that can be made there. That's not the only way. Specific qigong movements can affect specific meridians, and a specific set of qigong can be prescribed for someone to bring that person back to health. Copper bracelet and healing crystals can have some effect. For people who can sense how those energies flow, they can tell what kind of effects that might have. (Note that not everyone is going to be able to sense in the same "spectrum"). It isn't just copper -- metal in general will change flows, and different types of metal will change them in different ways. The same with crystals. Someone who can sense these things and extract information can note the different "flavor" or "personality" of individual crystals of the same material, and that can affect someone. I have not experimented much with aromatherapy. Traditional cognitive therapy is interesting, and they can have an effect on people at the subtle energy level as well. That shouldn't be surprising as memory and cognition will take place in the subtle as well as the physical. It is possible that experiencing an insight in cognitive therapy will also unlock a knot in the subtle -- but it could happen the other way as well, where the loosening of the the subtle and physical body loosens up the mind enough for an insight (and attitude and behavioral changes) to emerge.
aalleavitch 9y ago
I think we get too caught up in the terms and appearances of the discussion. If you don’t know whether there is any depth behind a statement, why not probe rather than reject out of hand? As it is, you’re literally saying “I don’t know what you’re actually trying to say but it is superficially reminiscent of something I find disagreeable.” Just because someone is using terms and abstractions outside of your background does not mean they’re meaningless. The fact that scam artists and charlatans peddling pseudoscience try to co-opt scientific terms and outward appearances does not mean that science itself is nonsense, though someone with no background in science might be unable or unwilling to distinguish between them. And likewise the fact that many scientific models and abstractions that were popular in the past were later shown to be inaccurate or to be carrying fallacious baggage along with them does not mean that they weren’t useful steps toward a more refined model and a deeper understanding. Instead of rejecting discussion on the basis of superficial differences, why not look for the similarities between your abstractions and try to use that to build understanding? You may be surprised at how well your models map to each other, and in what you can learn (or teach) from the places where they don’t. Eastern traditions had thoroughly developed the basis for a safe and effective method for coping with mental disorders (which we now refer to as mindfulness) long before psychologists in the West were jamming ice picks into people’s eye sockets and calling it treatment. Just because someone’s terms and abstractions don’t easily mesh with your own does not mean that they cannot describe the same reality with varying levels of fidelity, and just because some parts of a tradition are found to amount to spurious (or even actively harmful) nonsense does not mean there’s no value to be found in it (early psychologists produced a huge amount of unscientific drivel and ruined a lot of people’s lives, but the application of rigor to understanding human behavior was a virtue in itself that ultimately led us to deeper understanding).
- ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
  I'm not rejecting the "woo woo" actually. Just explaining the downvotes. As u/hosh 's comment showed, the amount of work required to get to an agreed definition of terms, just means that these conversations are not ideal for this type of discussion board. It is totally possible to do, but the length of each response means that these conversations are better served off line. Or with specific online communities who have already cut through a lot of the mess, to come to a shared understanding on some topics. Sorry this is just a semantic argument, when you are trying to have a deeper one. But my only real issue with your last comment is that it is very difficult to read, and would benefit from some paragraph breaks.

hosh 9y ago

That really depends. Some of those methods work well for some people and not for others. Since we're laying it out on the table, I'll comment on here about those different methods. You won't be using the "Kundali" method (which I take it to mean "Kundalini"). That is a phenomena that is initiates a drastic transformation on the person's body and mind, and has its own way with the person. It may be induced and people can spontaneously have it kicked off. People usually come for treatments for side-effects from that sort of spiritual emergence, and those side-effects are often knots of resistance in the mind or body. Aura usually refers to a layer of subtle energy closer to the surface, and as such, something that as deeply transformative as Kundalini is overkill. I can say the same about Ayahuasca. She is going to have her way with you. Now, let's look at "chi isn't flowing correctly" and "it appears in the aura" -- which in the TCM modality would be the wei-qi, the guardian qi. The modern TCM practitioners will look at different physical symptoms and try to adjust things through acupuncture, acupressure, etc. However, there is a smaller subset of TCM practitioners who can directly sense the flows of the qi. For those people, Metal qi feels like Metal, and it is distinct from Earth qi or Fire qi. Meridians for these people can be directly sensed within one's body and in others, and they more or less follow the pathways already documented. Through a combination of learned knowledge and intuition, there are some adjustments that can be made there. That's not the only way. Specific qigong movements can affect specific meridians, and a specific set of qigong can be prescribed for someone to bring that person back to health. Copper bracelet and healing crystals can have some effect. For people who can sense how those energies flow, they can tell what kind of effects that might have. (Note that not everyone is going to be able to sense in the same "spectrum"). It isn't just copper -- metal in general will change flows, and different types of metal will change them in different ways. The same with crystals. Someone who can sense these things and extract information can note the different "flavor" or "personality" of individual crystals of the same material, and that can affect someone. I have not experimented much with aromatherapy. Traditional cognitive therapy is interesting, and they can have an effect on people at the subtle energy level as well. That shouldn't be surprising as memory and cognition will take place in the subtle as well as the physical. It is possible that experiencing an insight in cognitive therapy will also unlock a knot in the subtle -- but it could happen the other way as well, where the loosening of the the subtle and physical body loosens up the mind enough for an insight (and attitude and behavioral changes) to emerge.

aalleavitch 9y ago

I think we get too caught up in the terms and appearances of the discussion. If you don’t know whether there is any depth behind a statement, why not probe rather than reject out of hand? As it is, you’re literally saying “I don’t know what you’re actually trying to say but it is superficially reminiscent of something I find disagreeable.” Just because someone is using terms and abstractions outside of your background does not mean they’re meaningless. The fact that scam artists and charlatans peddling pseudoscience try to co-opt scientific terms and outward appearances does not mean that science itself is nonsense, though someone with no background in science might be unable or unwilling to distinguish between them. And likewise the fact that many scientific models and abstractions that were popular in the past were later shown to be inaccurate or to be carrying fallacious baggage along with them does not mean that they weren’t useful steps toward a more refined model and a deeper understanding. Instead of rejecting discussion on the basis of superficial differences, why not look for the similarities between your abstractions and try to use that to build understanding? You may be surprised at how well your models map to each other, and in what you can learn (or teach) from the places where they don’t. Eastern traditions had thoroughly developed the basis for a safe and effective method for coping with mental disorders (which we now refer to as mindfulness) long before psychologists in the West were jamming ice picks into people’s eye sockets and calling it treatment. Just because someone’s terms and abstractions don’t easily mesh with your own does not mean that they cannot describe the same reality with varying levels of fidelity, and just because some parts of a tradition are found to amount to spurious (or even actively harmful) nonsense does not mean there’s no value to be found in it (early psychologists produced a huge amount of unscientific drivel and ruined a lot of people’s lives, but the application of rigor to understanding human behavior was a virtue in itself that ultimately led us to deeper understanding).

ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
I'm not rejecting the "woo woo" actually. Just explaining the downvotes. As u/hosh 's comment showed, the amount of work required to get to an agreed definition of terms, just means that these conversations are not ideal for this type of discussion board. It is totally possible to do, but the length of each response means that these conversations are better served off line. Or with specific online communities who have already cut through a lot of the mess, to come to a shared understanding on some topics. Sorry this is just a semantic argument, when you are trying to have a deeper one. But my only real issue with your last comment is that it is very difficult to read, and would benefit from some paragraph breaks.