4 ms·

I'm not sure the usage of C for apps is an example of worse is better so much as network effects. It's easier to write apps in the same language as the OS.

bsder 9y ago
In addition, C progressed because it was free. People forget that compilers in the 1980's were expensive. If you wanted something compiled other than assembly language, your choices were C (1987--gcc could generally bootstrap) and Pascal (1984--mostly TurboPascal) and ... nothing. Look at what was sitting in Dr Dobbs Journal in the 1980's. People were typing in enormous programs in BASIC(!) in order to play with things like LISP and Prolog. Not a recipe for adoption ... I remember getting stuck using some Macintosh Lisp thing in 1986/1987--I pined for my OS9 machine and C and the dulcet (not!) grind of it's floppy drive. That says something.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  C was not not free at all. Small-C was probably the only dialect freely available, everything else was either commercial, or came for "free" with an UNIX workstation price tag. In fact, it was due to Solaris change of heart regarding developers, that some devs started to contribute to GCC. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8988021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8988021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8984454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8984454 I have a few editions of Dr Dobbs Journal comparing C compilers, all commercial, GCC was yet to be relevant.
  - bsder 9y ago
    Okay, maybe C isn't free at the time, but you can get it for anywhere between $50-100 1985 dollars--that qualifies as fairly cheap--especially for the kinds of technically competent individuals who would buy such a thing. So, what "better" language could you get for that price at that time?
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      Actually without bothering to go again diving into old magazines, it was more like $150 or more, with student discount. Pascal compilers like Turbo Pascal, for example.
      - AdieuToLogic 9y ago
        Aztec C[0], by Manx, cost about $200 USD in 1988. It came with a "complete" dev environment for PC-DOS (the version I have) which included: - C compiler - Assembler - Linker - Make - Grep - Z (an editor kinda like vi IIRC) I remember it being able to make very small executables, which meant a lot at that time. 0 - https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_manxAztecClApr88_25693545 https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_manxAztecClApr88_25693...

bsder 9y ago

In addition, C progressed because it was free. People forget that compilers in the 1980's were expensive. If you wanted something compiled other than assembly language, your choices were C (1987--gcc could generally bootstrap) and Pascal (1984--mostly TurboPascal) and ... nothing. Look at what was sitting in Dr Dobbs Journal in the 1980's. People were typing in enormous programs in BASIC(!) in order to play with things like LISP and Prolog. Not a recipe for adoption ... I remember getting stuck using some Macintosh Lisp thing in 1986/1987--I pined for my OS9 machine and C and the dulcet (not!) grind of it's floppy drive. That says something.

pjmlp 9y ago
C was not not free at all. Small-C was probably the only dialect freely available, everything else was either commercial, or came for "free" with an UNIX workstation price tag. In fact, it was due to Solaris change of heart regarding developers, that some devs started to contribute to GCC. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8988021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8988021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8984454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8984454 I have a few editions of Dr Dobbs Journal comparing C compilers, all commercial, GCC was yet to be relevant.
- bsder 9y ago
  Okay, maybe C isn't free at the time, but you can get it for anywhere between $50-100 1985 dollars--that qualifies as fairly cheap--especially for the kinds of technically competent individuals who would buy such a thing. So, what "better" language could you get for that price at that time?
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Actually without bothering to go again diving into old magazines, it was more like $150 or more, with student discount. Pascal compilers like Turbo Pascal, for example.
    - AdieuToLogic 9y ago
      Aztec C[0], by Manx, cost about $200 USD in 1988. It came with a "complete" dev environment for PC-DOS (the version I have) which included: - C compiler - Assembler - Linker - Make - Grep - Z (an editor kinda like vi IIRC) I remember it being able to make very small executables, which meant a lot at that time. 0 - https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_manxAztecClApr88_25693545 https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_manxAztecClApr88_25693...