3 ms·

How I despise quantitative commentary via downvotes instead of qualitative conversation. Edit: It's been a wild ride so far watching the votes go from the init

by loceng 9y ago

How I despise quantitative commentary via downvotes instead of qualitative conversation. Edit: It's been a wild ride so far watching the votes go from the initial 1 down to -2, back up to 0, back down to -3, back up to 0, back down to -1 and so on.. Looks like this comment got zinged now too with a downvote. Thanks for the entertainment all. And yes, I'm aware it's in the HN rules to not make comments like this - consider it as peaceful protest for change.

todd8 9y ago
Okay, I’ll comment quantitatively. You lost me on your first sentence: > If our energy systems aren't flowing properly then our own magnetic field and energetic defences are prone, weak. This is nonsense. I didn’t downvote you simply because that had already happened.
- loceng 9y ago
  One example to support this point - are you familiar with or have experience with acupuncture? Edit: Thank you by the way.
  - ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
    The problem with discussion around any "woo woo" topics is that they don't get anywhere, which is probably the reason for the downvotes. Yes, there are studies that show acupuncture could help someone give up smoking. But when you try to parse the reasons why, you end up saying things like "energy work", and "contemplative healing methodologies", which don't mean anything... or more precisely, they mean something to you, but every Alternative Medicine practitioner can redefine. So the words and language lose all meaning, its impossible to transfer knowledge or have a meaningful conversation without shared understanding of agreement on terms. I might only be saying this because my aura is blocked, and my Chi isn't flowing correctly. But should I fix that with the Kundali method, Ayahusca, a copper bracelet, healing crystals, aromatherapy, or traditional cognitive therapy?
    - hosh 9y ago
      That really depends. Some of those methods work well for some people and not for others. Since we're laying it out on the table, I'll comment on here about those different methods. You won't be using the "Kundali" method (which I take it to mean "Kundalini"). That is a phenomena that is initiates a drastic transformation on the person's body and mind, and has its own way with the person. It may be induced and people can spontaneously have it kicked off. People usually come for treatments for side-effects from that sort of spiritual emergence, and those side-effects are often knots of resistance in the mind or body. Aura usually refers to a layer of subtle energy closer to the surface, and as such, something that as deeply transformative as Kundalini is overkill. I can say the same about Ayahuasca. She is going to have her way with you. Now, let's look at "chi isn't flowing correctly" and "it appears in the aura" -- which in the TCM modality would be the wei-qi, the guardian qi. The modern TCM practitioners will look at different physical symptoms and try to adjust things through acupuncture, acupressure, etc. However, there is a smaller subset of TCM practitioners who can directly sense the flows of the qi. For those people, Metal qi feels like Metal, and it is distinct from Earth qi or Fire qi. Meridians for these people can be directly sensed within one's body and in others, and they more or less follow the pathways already documented. Through a combination of learned knowledge and intuition, there are some adjustments that can be made there. That's not the only way. Specific qigong movements can affect specific meridians, and a specific set of qigong can be prescribed for someone to bring that person back to health. Copper bracelet and healing crystals can have some effect. For people who can sense how those energies flow, they can tell what kind of effects that might have. (Note that not everyone is going to be able to sense in the same "spectrum"). It isn't just copper -- metal in general will change flows, and different types of metal will change them in different ways. The same with crystals. Someone who can sense these things and extract information can note the different "flavor" or "personality" of individual crystals of the same material, and that can affect someone. I have not experimented much with aromatherapy. Traditional cognitive therapy is interesting, and they can have an effect on people at the subtle energy level as well. That shouldn't be surprising as memory and cognition will take place in the subtle as well as the physical. It is possible that experiencing an insight in cognitive therapy will also unlock a knot in the subtle -- but it could happen the other way as well, where the loosening of the the subtle and physical body loosens up the mind enough for an insight (and attitude and behavioral changes) to emerge.
heavenlyblue 9y ago
You know, I've once had a encounter with a good friend of mine, whom I considered to be relatively wise (she was a nice person to speak to). So I was telling her this story, where me and my friend got into an argument, after he could not walk through the town without us using a GPS navigator (him getting nervous due to not knowing where we were going); she simply replied that "he probably can't sense the magnetic field of our planet". Now I have to admit, that without any scientific knowledge this could sound quite plausible - but even if I, being a software engineer can't for sure reason why this is relatively impossible; I can definitely tell you that when I try to orient myself in a foreign town - I mainly pay attention to the sun, buildings and my memory, rather than general intuition (although that works too). Before you go on an another Indian retreat - you should definitely watch "Wild Wild Country".
- loceng 9y ago
  Likewise I don't know if we all have the potential for sense of direction based on magnetic fields or that only some of us that could tap into consciously it, or if it's there subconsciously. Homing pigeons use magnetoreception (just Googled for proper term - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoreception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoreception) - so it's possible it's somewhere in our DNA; it seems dolphins too have the ability to sense magnetic fields. Because the brain works as "use it or lose it" - most of us in modern societies will never need to tap into this sense nor would it be reenforced by its use, if it is a thing for humans. To me, it sounds like that friend didn't trust himself or his memory for whatever reason, so learned a dependance on a GPS navigator as a coping mechanism. Re: General intuition - It could be that general intuition is simply trusting yourself, trusting that you're already paying attention to your surroundings (and being relaxed enough to take it all in), fully in the present moment - so in the case you reference, you subconsciously are aware of the sun's location, buildings, memory, etc. I've never been to India - all yoga has been practiced locally, and ceremonies I've attended were within a few hours drive - sounds like an interesting documentary. Thanks for sharing.
- derekp7 9y ago
  I'm from the Chicago area, and around here everyone navigates by the lake. For whatever reason, you tend to always know which direction Lake Michigan is in, and therefore you know which way is East (this happens even when you are dozens of miles from the lake). I don't know if it is because of the general contours of the land, or what, but I've heard this from a number of people around here. But no one can explain (or even show scientifically) that they can always find the Lake.
hosh 9y ago
Ha! Some of my comments have elicited a roller-coaster ride like that too :-) Yes, I have heard of teachers that would contra-indicate on people with schizophrenia as well. It's kinda hard to tell though. I was once in a Ayahuasca ceremony where many of the people were convinced someone was having a psychotic break ... but the person in question didn't seem to me to be acting in a way that I hadn't experienced. (That is, I was that person, playing that role before, having a rough ride). The person's inner experience was totally different than what everyone else was experiencing, and was expressing a lot of gratitude. There are a lot of dark stuff buried in individuals and in the collective. Even just meditating will surface those things up. (Then again, something Adyashanti said in a podcast ... you go looking for content, you will find it. It's endless). However, I also think that our modern notions of schizophrenia does not serve us well: http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/08/22/shaman-sees-mental-hospital/ http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/08/22/shaman-sees-mental-hos... (There was a followup article interviewing the father of the young man in question, but I don't remember enough keywords to find it easily). And no, I won't discount the magnetic field thing. I've got too many encounters with subtle energy and their effects, and work with them myself. I don't know if those subtle energies can necessarily be modeled mechanistically (I think the whole modern take on TCM and meridians a fool's errand since the body meridians lay in the etheric, whereever that is, and not really where the tangible flesh lay). Thing is, until a large portion of the collective directly experiences it, the consensus algorithm in which our collective consciousness converges upon what is "real" will reject it. That's fine though.

by loceng 9y ago

todd8 9y ago

Okay, I’ll comment quantitatively. You lost me on your first sentence: > If our energy systems aren't flowing properly then our own magnetic field and energetic defences are prone, weak. This is nonsense. I didn’t downvote you simply because that had already happened.

loceng 9y ago
One example to support this point - are you familiar with or have experience with acupuncture? Edit: Thank you by the way.
- ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
  The problem with discussion around any "woo woo" topics is that they don't get anywhere, which is probably the reason for the downvotes. Yes, there are studies that show acupuncture could help someone give up smoking. But when you try to parse the reasons why, you end up saying things like "energy work", and "contemplative healing methodologies", which don't mean anything... or more precisely, they mean something to you, but every Alternative Medicine practitioner can redefine. So the words and language lose all meaning, its impossible to transfer knowledge or have a meaningful conversation without shared understanding of agreement on terms. I might only be saying this because my aura is blocked, and my Chi isn't flowing correctly. But should I fix that with the Kundali method, Ayahusca, a copper bracelet, healing crystals, aromatherapy, or traditional cognitive therapy?
  - hosh 9y ago
    That really depends. Some of those methods work well for some people and not for others. Since we're laying it out on the table, I'll comment on here about those different methods. You won't be using the "Kundali" method (which I take it to mean "Kundalini"). That is a phenomena that is initiates a drastic transformation on the person's body and mind, and has its own way with the person. It may be induced and people can spontaneously have it kicked off. People usually come for treatments for side-effects from that sort of spiritual emergence, and those side-effects are often knots of resistance in the mind or body. Aura usually refers to a layer of subtle energy closer to the surface, and as such, something that as deeply transformative as Kundalini is overkill. I can say the same about Ayahuasca. She is going to have her way with you. Now, let's look at "chi isn't flowing correctly" and "it appears in the aura" -- which in the TCM modality would be the wei-qi, the guardian qi. The modern TCM practitioners will look at different physical symptoms and try to adjust things through acupuncture, acupressure, etc. However, there is a smaller subset of TCM practitioners who can directly sense the flows of the qi. For those people, Metal qi feels like Metal, and it is distinct from Earth qi or Fire qi. Meridians for these people can be directly sensed within one's body and in others, and they more or less follow the pathways already documented. Through a combination of learned knowledge and intuition, there are some adjustments that can be made there. That's not the only way. Specific qigong movements can affect specific meridians, and a specific set of qigong can be prescribed for someone to bring that person back to health. Copper bracelet and healing crystals can have some effect. For people who can sense how those energies flow, they can tell what kind of effects that might have. (Note that not everyone is going to be able to sense in the same "spectrum"). It isn't just copper -- metal in general will change flows, and different types of metal will change them in different ways. The same with crystals. Someone who can sense these things and extract information can note the different "flavor" or "personality" of individual crystals of the same material, and that can affect someone. I have not experimented much with aromatherapy. Traditional cognitive therapy is interesting, and they can have an effect on people at the subtle energy level as well. That shouldn't be surprising as memory and cognition will take place in the subtle as well as the physical. It is possible that experiencing an insight in cognitive therapy will also unlock a knot in the subtle -- but it could happen the other way as well, where the loosening of the the subtle and physical body loosens up the mind enough for an insight (and attitude and behavioral changes) to emerge.

heavenlyblue 9y ago

You know, I've once had a encounter with a good friend of mine, whom I considered to be relatively wise (she was a nice person to speak to). So I was telling her this story, where me and my friend got into an argument, after he could not walk through the town without us using a GPS navigator (him getting nervous due to not knowing where we were going); she simply replied that "he probably can't sense the magnetic field of our planet". Now I have to admit, that without any scientific knowledge this could sound quite plausible - but even if I, being a software engineer can't for sure reason why this is relatively impossible; I can definitely tell you that when I try to orient myself in a foreign town - I mainly pay attention to the sun, buildings and my memory, rather than general intuition (although that works too). Before you go on an another Indian retreat - you should definitely watch "Wild Wild Country".

loceng 9y ago
Likewise I don't know if we all have the potential for sense of direction based on magnetic fields or that only some of us that could tap into consciously it, or if it's there subconsciously. Homing pigeons use magnetoreception (just Googled for proper term - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoreception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoreception) - so it's possible it's somewhere in our DNA; it seems dolphins too have the ability to sense magnetic fields. Because the brain works as "use it or lose it" - most of us in modern societies will never need to tap into this sense nor would it be reenforced by its use, if it is a thing for humans. To me, it sounds like that friend didn't trust himself or his memory for whatever reason, so learned a dependance on a GPS navigator as a coping mechanism. Re: General intuition - It could be that general intuition is simply trusting yourself, trusting that you're already paying attention to your surroundings (and being relaxed enough to take it all in), fully in the present moment - so in the case you reference, you subconsciously are aware of the sun's location, buildings, memory, etc. I've never been to India - all yoga has been practiced locally, and ceremonies I've attended were within a few hours drive - sounds like an interesting documentary. Thanks for sharing.
derekp7 9y ago
I'm from the Chicago area, and around here everyone navigates by the lake. For whatever reason, you tend to always know which direction Lake Michigan is in, and therefore you know which way is East (this happens even when you are dozens of miles from the lake). I don't know if it is because of the general contours of the land, or what, but I've heard this from a number of people around here. But no one can explain (or even show scientifically) that they can always find the Lake.

hosh 9y ago

Ha! Some of my comments have elicited a roller-coaster ride like that too :-) Yes, I have heard of teachers that would contra-indicate on people with schizophrenia as well. It's kinda hard to tell though. I was once in a Ayahuasca ceremony where many of the people were convinced someone was having a psychotic break ... but the person in question didn't seem to me to be acting in a way that I hadn't experienced. (That is, I was that person, playing that role before, having a rough ride). The person's inner experience was totally different than what everyone else was experiencing, and was expressing a lot of gratitude. There are a lot of dark stuff buried in individuals and in the collective. Even just meditating will surface those things up. (Then again, something Adyashanti said in a podcast ... you go looking for content, you will find it. It's endless). However, I also think that our modern notions of schizophrenia does not serve us well: http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/08/22/shaman-sees-mental-hospital/ http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/08/22/shaman-sees-mental-hos... (There was a followup article interviewing the father of the young man in question, but I don't remember enough keywords to find it easily). And no, I won't discount the magnetic field thing. I've got too many encounters with subtle energy and their effects, and work with them myself. I don't know if those subtle energies can necessarily be modeled mechanistically (I think the whole modern take on TCM and meridians a fool's errand since the body meridians lay in the etheric, whereever that is, and not really where the tangible flesh lay). Thing is, until a large portion of the collective directly experiences it, the consensus algorithm in which our collective consciousness converges upon what is "real" will reject it. That's fine though.