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There are three kinds of leaks. Those that leak upcoming products or company roadmaps, those that leak internal company reorgs, meetings, mailing lists/announce

There are three kinds of leaks. Those that leak upcoming products or company roadmaps, those that leak internal company reorgs, meetings, mailing lists/announcements, and those that leak gripes. I assume you're ok with people being mad about leaked products they've been working hard on for years having their big debut ruined? So why would employees be mad about the leaking of internal meetings or discussions? Because in the majority of the cases, these leaks don't hurt company management, they hurt employees. Several times in the past, Googlers have had their physical or mental safety threatened by such leaks. What you see as a company discussion leaked, turns out to be a real life Doxx-ing of employees. Would Damore have been fired if someone hadn't leaked his memo externally? Probably not, he'd be quietly transferred by HR and maybe managed out, but able to preserve his career elsewhere in the valley. The response to his firing was that the internal company meeting questions got leaked and the real names of several female and transgender employees got forwarded to alt-right sites, which proceeded to harass them, send death threats, etc. And one year, an "innocent" leak of Google's yearly company Christmas present, a brown envelope with cash in it, put the physical safety of Googlers at risk, because Google Shuttle bus stops are well known and Googlers are easily identified in public, and that day, everyone knew Googlers would be carrying hundreds of dollars of cash in brown envelopes. These leaks often harm employees, not management.

ocdtrekkie 9y ago
Allegedly, Google's confidentially demands go well beyond not disclosing product launches, as a lawsuit that, to my knowledge, has not been concluded, has claimed: https://www.scribd.com/document/334736972/John-Doe-vs-Google-Inc#fullscreen&from_embed https://www.scribd.com/document/334736972/John-Doe-vs-Google... Furthermore, you can see in this letter from Brian Katz, the head of stopleaks, more or less everything discussed here, and certainly, it coming from "management": https://regmedia.co.uk/2017/05/22/katz-letter-google.pdf https://regmedia.co.uk/2017/05/22/katz-letter-google.pdf (Actually, everything here is useful/interesting: https://regmedia.co.uk/2017/05/22/discovery.pdf https://regmedia.co.uk/2017/05/22/discovery.pdf ) Note that he expressly suggests bringing concerns to a manager rather than speaking publicly about them, which likely includes concerns about working conditions or illegal conduct. He also cites the whole "damages our culture" aspect that is extremely relevant to the topic at hand. Edit: Removed off-topic addressing of removed content from parent post.
- cromwellian 9y ago
  Google employees who leak official confidential information: unannounced products, internal company documents, etc can get fired. There's nothing shocking about that. That will get you fired at pretty much any workplace. These are not "whistleblower" leaks. If you leak say, a private thread from internal mailing lists, you could lose your job, especially if it could harm other employees. If you summarize some issue, you probably are on steadier ground. Google has a vibrant internal culture of criticism. Memegen has already leaked (https://gizmodo.com/5946769/google-workers-make-internal-memes-for-their-inside-jokes-at-google https://gizmodo.com/5946769/google-workers-make-internal-mem...), execs and products get raked over the coals at weekly company wide meetings, there's actually internal comics that satirize company beliefs. And yes, management doesn't always listen, probably the single biggest reason unionization might be needed in Silicon Valley, not for worker pay and benefits, which are already good, but to ensure management listens on other issues. BTW, the TGIF transcript and meme leaks are the kinds that have ended up Doxxing employees and triggering harassment. The gizmodo link I put properly redacts the usernames, but other leaks have not.
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    The "doxxing employees" thing only carries so much weight with me, because I feel that your correspondence in a corporate environment which impacts billions of people should have accountability, and the corporate party cannot be entrusted with it. People should not say things even in a private corporate setting that they would not be comfortable if was someday public. Not only can a lawsuit or investigation bring internal correspondence to light, but for instance, some of my correspondence could be FOIA'd! People fail to realize their corporate correspondence is not their private place, and treat it accordingly. I do have a lot of sympathy for targeted folks like LGBT folks getting harassed, particularly after events like Damore and the related lawsuits and embedded posts/content. But in many cases, they are already publicly identifying their RL name, gender identity, and political positions on Twitter, for example. They weren't so much "doxxed", as they became higher profile due to having been in the news. This sucks a lot, but we can't hide important information from the public based on the unfortunate reality that soul-sucking nightmare trolls chase every name that gets even the briefest of public attention... imagine if we took that approach/mindset with leaks coming out of the White House. PS - I really wish more of Memegen was leaked/public. I can't count how many times a news story has led to the thought "darn, I wish I could see what Memegen looks like today".

ocdtrekkie 9y ago

Allegedly, Google's confidentially demands go well beyond not disclosing product launches, as a lawsuit that, to my knowledge, has not been concluded, has claimed: https://www.scribd.com/document/334736972/John-Doe-vs-Google-Inc#fullscreen&from_embed https://www.scribd.com/document/334736972/John-Doe-vs-Google... Furthermore, you can see in this letter from Brian Katz, the head of stopleaks, more or less everything discussed here, and certainly, it coming from "management": https://regmedia.co.uk/2017/05/22/katz-letter-google.pdf https://regmedia.co.uk/2017/05/22/katz-letter-google.pdf (Actually, everything here is useful/interesting: https://regmedia.co.uk/2017/05/22/discovery.pdf https://regmedia.co.uk/2017/05/22/discovery.pdf ) Note that he expressly suggests bringing concerns to a manager rather than speaking publicly about them, which likely includes concerns about working conditions or illegal conduct. He also cites the whole "damages our culture" aspect that is extremely relevant to the topic at hand. Edit: Removed off-topic addressing of removed content from parent post.

cromwellian 9y ago
Google employees who leak official confidential information: unannounced products, internal company documents, etc can get fired. There's nothing shocking about that. That will get you fired at pretty much any workplace. These are not "whistleblower" leaks. If you leak say, a private thread from internal mailing lists, you could lose your job, especially if it could harm other employees. If you summarize some issue, you probably are on steadier ground. Google has a vibrant internal culture of criticism. Memegen has already leaked (https://gizmodo.com/5946769/google-workers-make-internal-memes-for-their-inside-jokes-at-google https://gizmodo.com/5946769/google-workers-make-internal-mem...), execs and products get raked over the coals at weekly company wide meetings, there's actually internal comics that satirize company beliefs. And yes, management doesn't always listen, probably the single biggest reason unionization might be needed in Silicon Valley, not for worker pay and benefits, which are already good, but to ensure management listens on other issues. BTW, the TGIF transcript and meme leaks are the kinds that have ended up Doxxing employees and triggering harassment. The gizmodo link I put properly redacts the usernames, but other leaks have not.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  The "doxxing employees" thing only carries so much weight with me, because I feel that your correspondence in a corporate environment which impacts billions of people should have accountability, and the corporate party cannot be entrusted with it. People should not say things even in a private corporate setting that they would not be comfortable if was someday public. Not only can a lawsuit or investigation bring internal correspondence to light, but for instance, some of my correspondence could be FOIA'd! People fail to realize their corporate correspondence is not their private place, and treat it accordingly. I do have a lot of sympathy for targeted folks like LGBT folks getting harassed, particularly after events like Damore and the related lawsuits and embedded posts/content. But in many cases, they are already publicly identifying their RL name, gender identity, and political positions on Twitter, for example. They weren't so much "doxxed", as they became higher profile due to having been in the news. This sucks a lot, but we can't hide important information from the public based on the unfortunate reality that soul-sucking nightmare trolls chase every name that gets even the briefest of public attention... imagine if we took that approach/mindset with leaks coming out of the White House. PS - I really wish more of Memegen was leaked/public. I can't count how many times a news story has led to the thought "darn, I wish I could see what Memegen looks like today".