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This being HN, I should point out that getting goalies to play can be such a problem that there is even an "Uber for goalies" app in Canada: https://www.puckap

This being HN, I should point out that getting goalies to play can be such a problem that there is even an "Uber for goalies" app in Canada: https://www.puckapp.ca/ https://www.puckapp.ca/

toyg 9y ago
Are goalies so rare / specialised / injury-prone in ice-hockey that they need a dedicated app? Wow. I don't think anyone would need anything like that in football (soccer), but maybe there is a business opportunity I had never thought of...
- ninkendo 9y ago
  Pretty much. If you're in a rec league and your goalie can't make the game you have to scramble to find one, or forfeit the game (or play without one, which trust me, sucks for both teams since the other team feels like they have to take it easy on you even though they really shouldn't.) Usually the league you're in provides this service though, there's a sort of standby list of goalies that can get called on if you know enough in advance that yours can't make it. Goalies also almost never pay the league fees (the team distributes the fees amongst the skating players and doesn't make the goalie pay). Not having a goalie is basically the death of a team.
  - moondev 9y ago
    Agreed! The other thing is if you don't play goalie mainly, many skaters just would rather not. I know I would much rather play as a forward than get shot at all game.
  - evanspa 9y ago
    In my beer hockey league (Charlotte), goalies have to pay the league fees too. And it's up to the player-coach to find a sub if the primary goalie can't make the game. Our league is relatively "formal" in that we all have to be registered with USA Hockey; our games have real refs, time keeper, etc. But I've been in other leagues, less formal, where goalies skate for free.
    - ninkendo 9y ago
      In my league the payment is per-team, not per person, so the league doesn't care who pays, they just need payment. But traditionally, a team will divide the cost among N-1 of them so that the goalie doesn't have to pay. It's quite a nice system IMO.
      - phil21 9y ago
        It also is worth pointing out that it's not just because of the "rarity" of goalies teammates do this - it's also a substantial cost burden for a goalie to play due to the expense of equipment. This helps distribute that burden a bit more fairly since as you stated early - the team doesn't exist unless you have a goalie. A family member recently outfitted a junior high goalie and the total came to about $1,000. I always imagined the goalie as the main tank of a raiding guild. They got special privileges just due to their importance and "upkeep" costs.
- atomic77 9y ago
  The comparison to a keeper in football is close, but in hockey it's a far more important and specialized role. In the NHL, a typical # of shots on goal is 30-35 [1]. Seems like 3-7 is a typical number of saves a football keeper would have to make [2]. Also, the equipment a hockey goalie uses is specialized, whereas I think the only extra equipment a keeper has is a different coloured jersey and gloves. [1] http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20172018&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=shotsAgainstPerGame http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?reportType=season&seasonFrom=2... [2] http://www.footcharts.co.uk/index.cfm?task=basics_shotsontarget http://www.footcharts.co.uk/index.cfm?task=basics_shotsontar...
  - toyg 9y ago
    You are correct, football keepers make a much lower amount of saves - but goals tend to be fewer and hence "heavier" in football, so having a bad keeper will still likely result in a loss. And it's still the sort of role no regular player wants to do - which results in some funny differences at the cultural level. At the very least, I guess this concept could work as a feature for all those apps people use to arrange 5-a-sides.
- ascagnel_ 9y ago
  More specialized -- goaltenders, like drummers, have to make a big investment both in equipment and in a means to transport it.

This being HN, I should point out that getting goalies to play can be such a problem that there is even an "Uber for goalies" app in Canada: https://www.puckapp.ca/ https://www.puckapp.ca/

toyg 9y ago

Are goalies so rare / specialised / injury-prone in ice-hockey that they need a dedicated app? Wow. I don't think anyone would need anything like that in football (soccer), but maybe there is a business opportunity I had never thought of...

ninkendo 9y ago
Pretty much. If you're in a rec league and your goalie can't make the game you have to scramble to find one, or forfeit the game (or play without one, which trust me, sucks for both teams since the other team feels like they have to take it easy on you even though they really shouldn't.) Usually the league you're in provides this service though, there's a sort of standby list of goalies that can get called on if you know enough in advance that yours can't make it. Goalies also almost never pay the league fees (the team distributes the fees amongst the skating players and doesn't make the goalie pay). Not having a goalie is basically the death of a team.
- moondev 9y ago
  Agreed! The other thing is if you don't play goalie mainly, many skaters just would rather not. I know I would much rather play as a forward than get shot at all game.
- evanspa 9y ago
  In my beer hockey league (Charlotte), goalies have to pay the league fees too. And it's up to the player-coach to find a sub if the primary goalie can't make the game. Our league is relatively "formal" in that we all have to be registered with USA Hockey; our games have real refs, time keeper, etc. But I've been in other leagues, less formal, where goalies skate for free.
  - ninkendo 9y ago
    In my league the payment is per-team, not per person, so the league doesn't care who pays, they just need payment. But traditionally, a team will divide the cost among N-1 of them so that the goalie doesn't have to pay. It's quite a nice system IMO.
    - phil21 9y ago
      It also is worth pointing out that it's not just because of the "rarity" of goalies teammates do this - it's also a substantial cost burden for a goalie to play due to the expense of equipment. This helps distribute that burden a bit more fairly since as you stated early - the team doesn't exist unless you have a goalie. A family member recently outfitted a junior high goalie and the total came to about $1,000. I always imagined the goalie as the main tank of a raiding guild. They got special privileges just due to their importance and "upkeep" costs.
atomic77 9y ago
The comparison to a keeper in football is close, but in hockey it's a far more important and specialized role. In the NHL, a typical # of shots on goal is 30-35 [1]. Seems like 3-7 is a typical number of saves a football keeper would have to make [2]. Also, the equipment a hockey goalie uses is specialized, whereas I think the only extra equipment a keeper has is a different coloured jersey and gloves. [1] http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20172018&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=shotsAgainstPerGame http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?reportType=season&seasonFrom=2... [2] http://www.footcharts.co.uk/index.cfm?task=basics_shotsontarget http://www.footcharts.co.uk/index.cfm?task=basics_shotsontar...
- toyg 9y ago
  You are correct, football keepers make a much lower amount of saves - but goals tend to be fewer and hence "heavier" in football, so having a bad keeper will still likely result in a loss. And it's still the sort of role no regular player wants to do - which results in some funny differences at the cultural level. At the very least, I guess this concept could work as a feature for all those apps people use to arrange 5-a-sides.
ascagnel_ 9y ago
More specialized -- goaltenders, like drummers, have to make a big investment both in equipment and in a means to transport it.