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They had to failover to a warm standby only minutes after their hot standby failed too. I'm impressed that there is a process in place for this. I would not ha

They had to failover to a warm standby only minutes after their hot standby failed too. I'm impressed that there is a process in place for this. I would not have been surprised if the story was that the equipment manager has put on whichever goalie's equipment fits him better, in order to get into the game to prevent a forfeit.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
fredleblanc 9y ago
Teams have a list of standby players like this in the list. Some teams equipment managers are in the list, and have training if it comes to it. To have to go four levels deep is pretty rare. From the times I've seen this level of standby dressing for the game, usually the first stringer is already injured and the back-up gets hurt in warmups. Then the third-stringer is playing and the fourth-stringer (equipment manager, extreme backup, whoever) is dressed but doesn't play. It just so happens in this game, it got to that.
QuotedForTruth 9y ago
I'm surprised its not just one of the players on the roster. Somebody who played goalie in high school or something. In soccer you occasionally see a hurt or red carded goalie replaced by a field player if the team has already used their allowed substitutions for the game. But I guess goalie is just that different in hockey.
- mikemac 9y ago
  Getting the equipment on is a bit of a process, so I doubt teams would want to be down a rostered skater in the event they need someone to sit on the bench as a goaltender. It's also extremely rare for these backups to see playing time. This is only the second time it's happened in the NHL; the previous was last year when an equipment manager stood in for 8 seconds.
- johns 9y ago
  Good explanation of why that's not practical from a long-time goalie: https://deadspin.com/1824202533 https://deadspin.com/1824202533
- michaelgrosner2 9y ago
  I played hockey all through college as a forward and a couple times have thrown on goalie equipment just to try it out after practice. I have found that being a goalie is a completely different skill set than being a skater, it's almost like you are playing a different sport. It's all about playing angles, body positioning, quick reflexes, and spatial awareness - those skills are important for skaters but we usually focus on play formation, north/south speed, agility, and passing.
  - DrScump 9y ago
    Plus you're on the ice for the entire game rather than one 40-60 second shift at a time (with no chance for a rest in the penalty box, either).
- atomic77 9y ago
  This being HN, I should point out that getting goalies to play can be such a problem that there is even an "Uber for goalies" app in Canada: https://www.puckapp.ca/ https://www.puckapp.ca/
  - toyg 9y ago
    Are goalies so rare / specialised / injury-prone in ice-hockey that they need a dedicated app? Wow. I don't think anyone would need anything like that in football (soccer), but maybe there is a business opportunity I had never thought of...
    - ninkendo 9y ago
      Pretty much. If you're in a rec league and your goalie can't make the game you have to scramble to find one, or forfeit the game (or play without one, which trust me, sucks for both teams since the other team feels like they have to take it easy on you even though they really shouldn't.) Usually the league you're in provides this service though, there's a sort of standby list of goalies that can get called on if you know enough in advance that yours can't make it. Goalies also almost never pay the league fees (the team distributes the fees amongst the skating players and doesn't make the goalie pay). Not having a goalie is basically the death of a team.
      - moondev 9y ago
        Agreed! The other thing is if you don't play goalie mainly, many skaters just would rather not. I know I would much rather play as a forward than get shot at all game.
      - evanspa 9y ago
        In my beer hockey league (Charlotte), goalies have to pay the league fees too. And it's up to the player-coach to find a sub if the primary goalie can't make the game. Our league is relatively "formal" in that we all have to be registered with USA Hockey; our games have real refs, time keeper, etc. But I've been in other leagues, less formal, where goalies skate for free.
- DrScump 9y ago
  They have to have the full goalie gear on in advance and for the entire game. You'd be sacrificing a skater for that game. It's not like baseball, where some non-catcher on the roster is considered emergency catcher (generally anybody bilingual and with past catching experience). I saw this happen in pro roller hockey (RHI) where the San Jose Rhinos' then-GM (but previously a champion goalie) had to sign himself to a 1-day contract and dress for a game.
mkobit 9y ago
The equipment manager story happened, too [1]!. In that case, he only went on to play the last 8 seconds of the game so it wasn't as crazy as this occurrence since Scott got to play 13 minutes of NHL hockey. [1]: https://deadspin.com/the-hurricanes-playing-their-equipment-manager-as-emerg-1790669035 https://deadspin.com/the-hurricanes-playing-their-equipment-...
- atomic77 9y ago
  In a case like that I wonder if they did it partly for fun - they easily could have played the last 8 seconds with an empty net.
  - pmulv 9y ago
    In fact, down 3-1 with under 2 minutes left, it's very common to have an empty net in order to have an extra forward out to enable potentially scoring last-ditch effort goals! The only reason I could see for them playing Alves at all in this situation was if the faceoff with 8 seconds left was in the defensive zone for the Hurricanes.
jerf 9y ago
"They had to failover to a warm standby only minutes after their hot standby failed too." Thank you for explaining this in terms I can understand.
- atomic77 9y ago
  It's fun to think of a goalie in hockey as equivalent to the database in a classic web architecture. How many of us that built apps in the 2000s actually had a codified plan of what would happen in the event our hot standby also failed before we could reprovision a new primary?
DrScump 9y ago
I'm impressed that there is a process in place for this. It's not that uncommon, at least to get as far as the bench. The NHL mandates that each team have two fully-dressed-and-equipped goaltenders at the ready so that a replacement can be a drop-in with little time loss. (They don't even get to face warm-up shots or much warm-up time.) If there is an injury to either, a goalie is called up from their AHL (the top minor league, like AAA in baseball) or ECHL (AA) affiliates, but short notice or far travel can preclude that, making the occasional need for an emergency goalie. Typically, an emergency goalie is a local college or club team goaltender (as available). They sign a 1-day NHLPA pro contract and (ideally) ride the bench all game. The San Jose Sharks have used club goalies from San Jose State before (SJSU is only Div III in hockey).

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

fredleblanc 9y ago

Teams have a list of standby players like this in the list. Some teams equipment managers are in the list, and have training if it comes to it. To have to go four levels deep is pretty rare. From the times I've seen this level of standby dressing for the game, usually the first stringer is already injured and the back-up gets hurt in warmups. Then the third-stringer is playing and the fourth-stringer (equipment manager, extreme backup, whoever) is dressed but doesn't play. It just so happens in this game, it got to that.

QuotedForTruth 9y ago

I'm surprised its not just one of the players on the roster. Somebody who played goalie in high school or something. In soccer you occasionally see a hurt or red carded goalie replaced by a field player if the team has already used their allowed substitutions for the game. But I guess goalie is just that different in hockey.

mikemac 9y ago
Getting the equipment on is a bit of a process, so I doubt teams would want to be down a rostered skater in the event they need someone to sit on the bench as a goaltender. It's also extremely rare for these backups to see playing time. This is only the second time it's happened in the NHL; the previous was last year when an equipment manager stood in for 8 seconds.
johns 9y ago
Good explanation of why that's not practical from a long-time goalie: https://deadspin.com/1824202533 https://deadspin.com/1824202533
michaelgrosner2 9y ago
I played hockey all through college as a forward and a couple times have thrown on goalie equipment just to try it out after practice. I have found that being a goalie is a completely different skill set than being a skater, it's almost like you are playing a different sport. It's all about playing angles, body positioning, quick reflexes, and spatial awareness - those skills are important for skaters but we usually focus on play formation, north/south speed, agility, and passing.
- DrScump 9y ago
  Plus you're on the ice for the entire game rather than one 40-60 second shift at a time (with no chance for a rest in the penalty box, either).
atomic77 9y ago
This being HN, I should point out that getting goalies to play can be such a problem that there is even an "Uber for goalies" app in Canada: https://www.puckapp.ca/ https://www.puckapp.ca/
- toyg 9y ago
  Are goalies so rare / specialised / injury-prone in ice-hockey that they need a dedicated app? Wow. I don't think anyone would need anything like that in football (soccer), but maybe there is a business opportunity I had never thought of...
  - ninkendo 9y ago
    Pretty much. If you're in a rec league and your goalie can't make the game you have to scramble to find one, or forfeit the game (or play without one, which trust me, sucks for both teams since the other team feels like they have to take it easy on you even though they really shouldn't.) Usually the league you're in provides this service though, there's a sort of standby list of goalies that can get called on if you know enough in advance that yours can't make it. Goalies also almost never pay the league fees (the team distributes the fees amongst the skating players and doesn't make the goalie pay). Not having a goalie is basically the death of a team.
    - moondev 9y ago
      Agreed! The other thing is if you don't play goalie mainly, many skaters just would rather not. I know I would much rather play as a forward than get shot at all game.
    - evanspa 9y ago
      In my beer hockey league (Charlotte), goalies have to pay the league fees too. And it's up to the player-coach to find a sub if the primary goalie can't make the game. Our league is relatively "formal" in that we all have to be registered with USA Hockey; our games have real refs, time keeper, etc. But I've been in other leagues, less formal, where goalies skate for free.
DrScump 9y ago
They have to have the full goalie gear on in advance and for the entire game. You'd be sacrificing a skater for that game. It's not like baseball, where some non-catcher on the roster is considered emergency catcher (generally anybody bilingual and with past catching experience). I saw this happen in pro roller hockey (RHI) where the San Jose Rhinos' then-GM (but previously a champion goalie) had to sign himself to a 1-day contract and dress for a game.

mkobit 9y ago

The equipment manager story happened, too [1]!. In that case, he only went on to play the last 8 seconds of the game so it wasn't as crazy as this occurrence since Scott got to play 13 minutes of NHL hockey. [1]: https://deadspin.com/the-hurricanes-playing-their-equipment-manager-as-emerg-1790669035 https://deadspin.com/the-hurricanes-playing-their-equipment-...

atomic77 9y ago
In a case like that I wonder if they did it partly for fun - they easily could have played the last 8 seconds with an empty net.
- pmulv 9y ago
  In fact, down 3-1 with under 2 minutes left, it's very common to have an empty net in order to have an extra forward out to enable potentially scoring last-ditch effort goals! The only reason I could see for them playing Alves at all in this situation was if the faceoff with 8 seconds left was in the defensive zone for the Hurricanes.

jerf 9y ago

"They had to failover to a warm standby only minutes after their hot standby failed too." Thank you for explaining this in terms I can understand.

atomic77 9y ago
It's fun to think of a goalie in hockey as equivalent to the database in a classic web architecture. How many of us that built apps in the 2000s actually had a codified plan of what would happen in the event our hot standby also failed before we could reprovision a new primary?

DrScump 9y ago

I'm impressed that there is a process in place for this. It's not that uncommon, at least to get as far as the bench. The NHL mandates that each team have two fully-dressed-and-equipped goaltenders at the ready so that a replacement can be a drop-in with little time loss. (They don't even get to face warm-up shots or much warm-up time.) If there is an injury to either, a goalie is called up from their AHL (the top minor league, like AAA in baseball) or ECHL (AA) affiliates, but short notice or far travel can preclude that, making the occasional need for an emergency goalie. Typically, an emergency goalie is a local college or club team goaltender (as available). They sign a 1-day NHLPA pro contract and (ideally) ride the bench all game. The San Jose Sharks have used club goalies from San Jose State before (SJSU is only Div III in hockey).