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TwentySomething: How my generation works
- reburg 16y agohey but we have iPad and not to mention the cool new iPod Nano [the touch one] , and plus iPhone 4G with FaceTime. Plus we are a better generation we don't buy cheap P.C. rather we have hypnosis inducing Apple Mac Book Pro's.
- confuzatron 16y agoIt's like reading a horoscope in the first person plural - i.e. flattering generalities that make the target feel good/virtuous/whatever.
- euroclydon 16y agoIf this generation doesn't value or have any faith in the traditional employee/employer relationship, then are new YC companies (founded by people this age) finding ways to create a new employee relationship structure which represents this feeling?
- c1sc0 16y agoI think that is already happening to a large extent. More and more people are founding their own little companies to fund side-projects and do consulting work. The workplace of the future may simply be a collection of loosely coupled people writing each other invoices.
- davidw 16y agoSee - Coase's Theory of the Firm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_the_firm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_the_firm
- euroclydon 16y agoYep, but that's not what I'm asking. Listen to any Mixergy podcast, and what does every company do? Hire people. I want to know what companies founded by gen-Y folks are doing to acknowledge the new thinking about the employer/employee relationship.
- steverb 16y agoContracting. It's like a job, but with fewer false promises and expectations.
- euroclydon 16y agoI'm going to answer my own question: Finding a job isn't a problem for smart, technical people. Negotiating might be, but not finding work. In fact, they know they can find another job or even start a company if they have to, so the blogger's sentiments are irrelevant to the HN crowd.
- atomical 16y agoI disagree. What companies consider smart and technical is up for debate.
- steveklabnik 16y agoI have made it a personal goal to run my future business as flat as possible, and as close to a co-op model as possible, even to my own personal detriment. Life is a bit different than ideals, and this may not come to pass, but it's a goal.
- CWuestefeld 16y agoThose may be ideals that we value. But when those values hit the real world, you get The Twentieth Century Motor Company http://www.conservapedia.com/Twentieth_Century_Motor_Company http://www.conservapedia.com/Twentieth_Century_Motor_Company
- steveklabnik 16y agoI'm not sure if you're trying to be sarcastic... In the real world, we get fictional companies? I'll be first to say that modern unions are horrible, and there's lots of problems there. But there are also a lot of successful, democratically run business places.
- CWuestefeld 16y agoSorry, my wording was poor. That story is a parable, and I was trying to remind you of it, as a logical consequence of running a business as a co-op. there are also a lot of successful, democratically run business places I'm not aware of any. Can you cite examples?
- steveklabnik 16y agoHere's a list on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_worker_cooperatives#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_worker_cooperatives#Uni... Obviously, this is not comprehensive.
- access_denied 16y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative
- yummyfajitas 16y agoWow, some twenty something's have no idea what life was like in past generations. Or in the present generation overseas. You unthinkingly jumped through all the meaningless hoops put in front of you and still can't find a job you like? You (and by "you", I mean "someone else the same age as you") joined the military and had a much lower chance of being injured or killed than the person of your parent's generation who was forced to join the military whether they wanted to or not? Your job got outsourced to some other twenty something, who doesn't have to live in poverty anymore? (I know, a guy named Gupta or Tolentino doesn't deserve a job as much as a precious flower like yourself.) Attention, "Mass Communication" students of my generation: STFU. The only people had it better than you are people who are a few years older/younger than you who got lucky and timed the recession better.
- jvdh 16y agoYou joined the military and had a much lower chance of being injured or killed than the person of your parent's generation who was forced to join the military whether they wanted to or not? I have no idea what you're talking about here. 25-35 years ago there were virtually no wars, there was a near zero chance of getting killed in the military. Whereas now, there are very reasonable chances for soldiers to get shipped to fight "terror" and get injured.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- jgrahamc 16y agoGeneralize much? Get over yourself. Seriously, the entire concept of a generation is false. Generations are a sliding window. I don't think the things she's talking about are specific to her 'generation'. Environmental consciousness? The US EPA started operation in 1970. I was actively pushing in the UK for things like recycling in the 1980s. Corporate responsibility? How about student boycotts of companies involved in South Africa under apartheid? And the list goes on. So you think your generation is special. My father's generation grew up with the challenge of rebuilding Europe after the Second World War and seeing Britain's world influence decline, his father's generation fought a war against their own neighbors, his father's generation did the same thing. Oh, so you've got all this caring about others consciousness and are sad because corporate America can guarantee you a gold watch at 55? My heart bleeds for you. "But, there’s one really great thing about coming of age in America in an era when things are generally thought to be pretty bad: It forces an early decision about what’s important in life" Wow, you think you're the first generation to ask themselves what's important in life at a 'young' age. Excuse my while I go John McEnroe (you'll have to Google him youngster): "You cannot be serious"
- wheaties 16y agoYes, the author did generalize. However, all the criticisms that I read about their generation are exactly that, generalizations. And the articles from both sides are always self-serving. The unemployment rate for under 25s is stageringly high compared to the general population. The cost of education has gone up 300% while inflation has gone up a mere 30% since 1990, most paid with borrowed monies. The whole economy tanked due to our debt fueled ways while they had no voice, choice, or ability to influence the outcome. If they want to be all "whiny," let them. My prospects were great coming out of college in the 1990's. The future was paved with gold. I wouldn't say much is paved with anything these days, let alone the road in front the driveway. The worlds an unjust place and they're finding it out. We told them it wasn't.
- bmj 16y agoAs I grow older, the more I realize there is nothing new under the sun. The biggest difference between the current crop of 20-somethings and the previous crop (my generation) is the internet--ideas are easily accessible, so anyone can write about environmental issues, or factory farming, or peak oil, or whatever. Previously, you had to go to the library and find this stuff, but it was there (a few examples: Wendell Berry, Jacques Ellul, Ivan Illich). Regarding "corporate America," there is quite a bit of generalization in the original post. My father recently retired from the company he started working for when he was in his 20s. He worked his way up the proverbial ladder and currently has an ownership stake. Most of his co-workers I remember meeting when I was kid still work there, or retired there. Yes, some companies are bad, but that is not the whole of it. There is always some degree of navel gazing by "youngsters." My old journals are full of it. Again, the difference is that these days, the navel gazing is public. At least the author is doing some degree of reflection about the state of things.
- illumin8 16y agoThe angst expressed in this article is real. These are not just the emo writings of a depressed kid. This is the backlash of the children of the baby boomers against their parents, who grew up during the 60s, espoused free love, peace, and other hippy pop culture platitudes, and yet, became the worst generation, squandering all of the greatest generation's (grandparents) hard won treasure and resources, outsourcing their kids futures to Asia so they could have cheaper electronics. Squandering their national treasure and good standing in the world, that the grandparents fought so hard to win in WW2, so they could fight pointless wars and get enough cheap energy to drive unsustainable land yachts to their unsustainable McMansions in the burbclaves. There are a lot of reasons that the current generation has to be angry with their parents. They've destroyed the economy, the jobs market, and are well on their way to destroying the planet. They'll retire in the next decade supported by a ponzi scheme (social security) on the backs of their children. The world is less safe, less secure, and more violent because of them. I can't help but look at Japan in the 90s and think that we are in for a repeat of that. An aging workforce, being constantly downsized and outsourced. No new jobs for college graduates, so they must live with their parents until their 30s or 40s. Property deflation over decades because their parents refused to acknowledge the losses on their overpriced houses. The parallels between Japan in the 90s and US in the 2010s are eerily similar. Study their culture to see what is next. I don't know what the answer is, but I can tell you that if the younger generations don't get involved in politics, the world will be destroyed by the older generations before we get a chance to truly participate.
- flatline 16y ago"This is the backlash of the children of the baby boomers against their parents, who grew up during the 60s, espoused free love, peace, and other hippy pop culture platitudes, and yet, became the worst generation" And built the internet. And kept social security afloat for years after it was supposed to become bankrupt (most of those people now using it also paid into it, remember). And did a thousand other things. What makes you think this generation will be any more responsible? Greed and ignorance are basic human conditions and are in no short supply in any generation.
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- watty 16y agoI'm a twenty something and this article embarrasses me. I'm a hard working financially independent person who busted my ass and am getting by just fine. Despite what your mommy and daddy told you, life's tough. I know more people like myself then I do sharing this authors whiny attitude.
- aphyr 16y agoI know more people like myself then I do sharing this authors whiny attitude. Of course you do--just like almost everyone I meet here in SF is a well-paid designer, manager/CEO, or engineer.
- flatline 16y agoThis sounds like something anyone could have written when I was 20 without batting an eye. The illusion of a gold watch, retirement, a guaranteed job after college, were all known to be suspect or a complete myth by at least the 1980s. Raised to be aware of the plights of others? I remember "We are the world" and "adopting" impoverished African children with a monthly food stipend. Seriously, there's probably a lot of interesting stuff that could be said about current 20-somethings in general, none of them were presented here.
- dragoon 16y agoI agree. The rot in our society started with the Reagan Era. 2008 didn't make it suddenly appear; it just brought it back to the surface. The OP has a just grievance, but she's comparing the world she faces to the Mad Men era of social mobility, when her parents were (probably) children.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- MortenK 16y agoThe author really ought to replace "we" with "I".
- steveklabnik 16y agoThere's a lot of macho posturing and 'get off my lawn; in my day, uphill both ways...' comments in this thread, but I'm actually in agreement with this article, I'm 24. It does come across a little whiny, but the point is there: my cohort (I like this word better, see jgrahamc's comment) takes a lot of abuse from people who say that we're lazy, entitled, and don't want to actually work. What I see is the disparity between my grandparents' generation and my own, that the author alludes to: people used to actually work for companies for 30+ years. Their loyalty was actually repaid. My grandfather worked at a steel mill his entire adult life, never changed jobs, and was paid reasonably and offered a decent pension. Now, we know that model doesn't work anymore, but when employers treat employees as 'resources'... you can't be confused by some push back. This is the entire reason I'm an entrepreneur; I know for a fact that large corporations try to create the same feelings of loyalty in me that my grandfather had, because it's useful to them. But on the other side of the deal, I'll just be tossed aside when it looks like we might not hit quarterly projections. Fuck that. I'm not going to be loyal to someone who doesn't also respect me; that's an abusive relationship. I don't have any illusions that my generation will change the world; every generation has thought that, and they all end up selling out. But I do feel that we're defining success differently, our priorities have changed from our parents', and things will be slightly different, even if they're not better.
- masterponomo 16y agoWorking as I do on a very old mainframe/financial system, my youngest co-workers are in their 30's. For some reason, all of the under-50 mainframers I encounter are Hispanic or Indian or Asian while all us older guys (yes, 95% guys) are Caucasian. Could it be the tech schools that churn out mainframers only attract the poor, motivated guys who want the quickest path to a job (that was my own route, BTW). The younger immigrant guys are absolute workhorses and they don't bring their politics and environmental consciousness to work. They are worthy heirs to the code edifice we have built. The old guys don't mess around and worry too much either--we're too busy hacking COBOL and assembler and coveting muscle cars and other toys that we can finally afford. Oh, and we who started in IT in the 1970's and 1980's didn't start out with any guarantees, lifetime jobs, or easy rows to hoe. TwentySomething, keep plugging away on your own behalf and don't identify too strongly with the self-pitying ones in your generation.
- dragoon 16y agoThis could have just as easily been written by a Gen Xer or a Late Boomer. The problem is that people who are 25 now are comparing their economic fortune not to those of people born 10 years earlier, but to those of people born 30 to 50 years earlier, who entered the working world in the Mad Men era. If you were late Silent or early Boomer (b. 1930 to 1950) you faced an extraordinarily easy career game. Even in advertising, the era's analogue of banking, people left work at 6:00. Unlike those who are young now, you didn't have to bust your ass through college and internships. People dropping acid at Woodstock in '69 could walk into executive-track corporate jobs in '70 and be VPs by '72. They had it really fucking easy. Today you can't get a decent entry-level job with a 3.4 GPA and no internship. The sunny era, however, didn't end in 2008 or 2001, but much earlier. If you were leaving college in the mid-1970s stagflation era, you'd missed it. There were small, blippy, "booms" localized to a few industries (banking, then oil/gas, then dot-coms, then oil/gas, then real estate, then banking) in the next three decades, but the general prosperity never came back.
- whyme 16y ago"It forces an early decision about what’s important in life. No matter how it appears while looking down from 25 years up the corporate ladder, we are decidedly chasing our own ideals, even when things seem hopeless." Here's my generalization: From everything I see Generation-Y has been protected from having to make any such decisions. It's been the only generation where it's been OK to live at home with your parents until 30. So how are you making any tough decisions doing that? When we graduated in the 90's droves of workers were being let go during the recession, only back then we were expected to deal with it an survive without. And we didn't live at home. When we looked for work, we'd spend everyday going door to door with resumes, or phoning every business in our phone books, but generation-Y signs-up to a bunch of job feeds and rarely do they bother spending an entire day trying. It maybe that I am in the wrong circles, but every generation-Y I've met, can stay home and video-game in the event things go wrong. That said, I learned a valuable lesson about 10 years back, and that is no matter how much one likes to think they're not self-centered they are - it's human nature. No matter the generation. And the statements made through-out this article, my own posting, and others, have re-enforced this for me.