> Good luck having a designer mockup/write HTML. What you are looking at was designed by a designer. Maybe you think another designer you know could make some

> Good luck having a designer mockup/write HTML. What you are looking at was designed by a designer. Maybe you think another designer you know could make something that looks better if only they could use their own tools, instead of tools that this designer liked to use. I remember an age when I would receive photoshop "designs" that I would have to re-code in HTML. Then they got dreamweaver and thought they didn't need me to code their stuff up anymore, just to debug their stuff and tell them why it didn't work in X/Y/Z browser combination. When the lisp programmer is writing their login panel, they start out writing "code" like this, (defun login-panel () (pbox "login/register" then decide they need some HTML. `pbox` recognises HTML as long as it looks like lisp so: (:form :id "logform" :class "nomargin" (:table :style "border-collapse: collapse" (:tr (:td :colspan "2" "username:")) (:tr (:td :colspan "2" (:input :id "loguser" :class "txt" :name "user" :type "text" :size 15))) (:tr (:td :colspan "2" "password:")) (:tr (:td :colspan "2" (:input :id "logpass" :class "txt" :name "pass" :type "password" :size 15))) (:tr (:td :colspan "2" (:input :id "logmem" :type "checkbox" :name "mem" "remember me"))) (:tr (:td :colspan "2" (:span :id "logerror" :class "error" ""))) (:tr (:td (:input :id "logbtn" :class "btn" :type "submit" :value "Login" :onclick "login(); return false")) (:td (:input :class "btn" :type "submit" :value "Register" :onclick "register(); return false"))) (:tr (:td :nowrap t :colspan "2" :align "center" :class "little" (:a :href "/password" "what's my password?"))))))) can be transformed into the much more complex: <form id="logform" class="nomargin"> <table style="border-collapse: collapse"> <tr><td colspan="2">username:</td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"><input id="loguser" class="txt" name="user" type="text" size="15"></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2">password:</td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"><input id="logpass" class="txt" name="pass" type="password" size="15"></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"><input id="logmem" type="checkbox" name="mem">remember me</td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"><span id="logerror" class="error"></span></td></tr> <tr><td><input id="logbtn" class="btn" type="submit" value="Login" onclick="login(); return false"></td> <td><input class="btn" type="submit" value="Register" onclick="register(); return false"></td></tr> <tr><td nowrap="t" colspan="2" align="center" class="little"><a href="/password">what's my password</a></td></tr> </table> </form> But what is the alternative? To embed the html so that it still looks like HTML means making a string of some kind, and running the risk that there's some kind of variable expansion or XSS or other thing that will bite them in the butt. Maybe not in this simple example, but the need to get into the display-language is very common in a web application, so there are lots of fragments like this to answer to: Maybe this one and bigger we could move into a file and either read it every request or add some extra code to save the contents to a global variable. But we haven't gained very much for all that complexity -- this hypothetical "when" we get a designer who knows HTML and not Lisp, and can contribute in a way that meaningfully moves the project forward without making more work for other programmers is far away at this point, and the reddit developers are just going to rewrite the whole thing in Python anyway.