No, they should still be the exception for the reasons already stated but also because defining all logic in a “render” function means it’s tightly coupled to y

No, they should still be the exception for the reasons already stated but also because defining all logic in a “render” function means it’s tightly coupled to your view logic, which you do not want. Request logic doesn’t belong in a render function. Routing definitions don’t belong in a render function and neither does abstract form logic.