5 ms·

Why does Qatar need 72 F-15s?

rdl 9y ago
They've managed to piss off Saudi Arabia/the rest of the GCC, and they are between the GCC and Iran. It's conceivable they could be fighting Iran, GCC, or both. There's an argument that having a lot of capability will deter actual aggression. 72 F-15s are a bargain compared to an actual war. It's also a way to buy closer relationship with the US. I'd feel a lot worse about any other country spending money on potentially needless arms; Qatar is solidly in the "we have extra money" range as a government.
- danielvf 9y ago
  As you know, Saudi Arabia and Iran currently have a cold war going on, accompanied by proxy wars through out the Middle East. Qatar is a small peninsula sticking out of Saudi Arabia. It is smaller than the Falkland Islands. In 2017, Qatar and Saudi Arabia had a major falling out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Qatar_diplomatic_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Qatar_diplomat... SA demanded that Qatar shutdown Al-Jazeera and all other news orgs, break off relations with Iran, pay unspecified piles of money that SA got to determine, and "align itself with the other Gulf and Arab countries militarily, politically, socially and economically, as well as on economic matters...". SA and neighboring countries then closed the land border, and stopped allowing ships to unload cargo and transfer to smaller ships for delivery to Qatar. This affected almost all cargo headed into the country, since Qatar's port can't support large ships. The neighboring countries also announced that anyone who shows sympathy to Qatar "whether it be through the means of social media, or any type of written, visual or verbal form", would be subject to $130,000 fine and three to fifteen years in jail. And that's where things have been for the last nine months. -- (Qatar, Iran, and SA all fund terrorism and terrorist organizations. There are all busy playing the Middle East version of the game of thrones. Any sympathy I feel for Qatar is because they are one of the little guys in this fight.)
  - josefresco 9y ago
    Related: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-companies-confirms-meeting-with-qatar-on-financing/2018/03/18/55e281ac-1e3c-11e8-9de1-147dd2df3829_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-companies-co... https://theintercept.com/2018/03/02/jared-kushner-real-estate-qatar-blockade/ https://theintercept.com/2018/03/02/jared-kushner-real-estat... https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/03/how-jared-kushner-landed-in-the-middle-of-a-vicious-proxy-war-between-qatar-and-its-neighbors/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/03/how-jared-kushn... Many more but you get the idea - business as usual!
- Sevrene 9y ago
  Am I the only one that thought you were saying Qatar pissed off GNU Compiler Collection? I should learn more history / geopolitics.
  - olympus 9y ago
    Gulf Cooperation Council for those that don't know. It's a regional alliance of countries around Saudi Arabia. Their major interests are 1. making tons of money, and 2. defending against Iran.
  - asadlionpk 9y ago
    Happens. A common mistake today's AI would probably make. But we humans have strong value for the CONTEXT.
    - rdl 9y ago
      In the greater context of Hacker News I really should have been more clear about the meaning of GCC.
    - kalkut 9y ago
      When I saw GCC, I asked Google Assistant what it was and it actually made the "mistake"
    - digi_owl 9y ago
      Humans (at least most) have a sense of fallibility. Thus when unsure we do not simply go with the best assumption. "AI"s seems to just go with whatever is the "most" likely, even if it is just some 0.0001% above a sea of alternatives.
robotresearcher 9y ago
To protect them from Iran and Israel. Not directly as weapons systems but as a means to transfer billions to the US as a political retainer.
- kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
  Which is somewhat ironic considering the billions in military aid we give Israel which returns to the US as a back door MIC subsidy. Playing both sides is great for business.
- gte525u 9y ago
  The article lists Elbit (an Israeli company) as the touchscreen provider.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
grey413 9y ago
US political and military protection.
VLM 9y ago
One strategy to airframe maint popularized by the USA would be a punishing maintenance load keeping all 72 operational. Another strategy popularized by Iran and their F-14 collection would be realistically only a fraction will remain operational over time due to maintenance and parts logistics limitations such that in 20 years they'd like to be able to field, perhaps, 16 actual flyable aircraft, which is realistic for a small state, a couple CAP, a couple hot standby, a couple for training, maybe the occasional very small raid, 16 or so is about right. As a side note about Iran's F14 collection IIRC the Iraqis claimed in hundreds of press releases, added up over the entire Iran-Iraq war, to have shot down more Iranian F14s than the USA had delivered to Iran... so giving Qatar 72 planes means at least 140 or so claimed kills by someone, eventually, LOL. And we also sell ADA missile systems and A-to-A missiles so 140 claimed kills is good for business.

rdl 9y ago

They've managed to piss off Saudi Arabia/the rest of the GCC, and they are between the GCC and Iran. It's conceivable they could be fighting Iran, GCC, or both. There's an argument that having a lot of capability will deter actual aggression. 72 F-15s are a bargain compared to an actual war. It's also a way to buy closer relationship with the US. I'd feel a lot worse about any other country spending money on potentially needless arms; Qatar is solidly in the "we have extra money" range as a government.

danielvf 9y ago
As you know, Saudi Arabia and Iran currently have a cold war going on, accompanied by proxy wars through out the Middle East. Qatar is a small peninsula sticking out of Saudi Arabia. It is smaller than the Falkland Islands. In 2017, Qatar and Saudi Arabia had a major falling out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Qatar_diplomatic_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Qatar_diplomat... SA demanded that Qatar shutdown Al-Jazeera and all other news orgs, break off relations with Iran, pay unspecified piles of money that SA got to determine, and "align itself with the other Gulf and Arab countries militarily, politically, socially and economically, as well as on economic matters...". SA and neighboring countries then closed the land border, and stopped allowing ships to unload cargo and transfer to smaller ships for delivery to Qatar. This affected almost all cargo headed into the country, since Qatar's port can't support large ships. The neighboring countries also announced that anyone who shows sympathy to Qatar "whether it be through the means of social media, or any type of written, visual or verbal form", would be subject to $130,000 fine and three to fifteen years in jail. And that's where things have been for the last nine months. -- (Qatar, Iran, and SA all fund terrorism and terrorist organizations. There are all busy playing the Middle East version of the game of thrones. Any sympathy I feel for Qatar is because they are one of the little guys in this fight.)
- josefresco 9y ago
  Related: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-companies-confirms-meeting-with-qatar-on-financing/2018/03/18/55e281ac-1e3c-11e8-9de1-147dd2df3829_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-companies-co... https://theintercept.com/2018/03/02/jared-kushner-real-estate-qatar-blockade/ https://theintercept.com/2018/03/02/jared-kushner-real-estat... https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/03/how-jared-kushner-landed-in-the-middle-of-a-vicious-proxy-war-between-qatar-and-its-neighbors/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/03/how-jared-kushn... Many more but you get the idea - business as usual!
Sevrene 9y ago
Am I the only one that thought you were saying Qatar pissed off GNU Compiler Collection? I should learn more history / geopolitics.
- olympus 9y ago
  Gulf Cooperation Council for those that don't know. It's a regional alliance of countries around Saudi Arabia. Their major interests are 1. making tons of money, and 2. defending against Iran.
- asadlionpk 9y ago
  Happens. A common mistake today's AI would probably make. But we humans have strong value for the CONTEXT.
  - rdl 9y ago
    In the greater context of Hacker News I really should have been more clear about the meaning of GCC.
  - kalkut 9y ago
    When I saw GCC, I asked Google Assistant what it was and it actually made the "mistake"
  - digi_owl 9y ago
    Humans (at least most) have a sense of fallibility. Thus when unsure we do not simply go with the best assumption. "AI"s seems to just go with whatever is the "most" likely, even if it is just some 0.0001% above a sea of alternatives.

robotresearcher 9y ago

To protect them from Iran and Israel. Not directly as weapons systems but as a means to transfer billions to the US as a political retainer.

kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
Which is somewhat ironic considering the billions in military aid we give Israel which returns to the US as a back door MIC subsidy. Playing both sides is great for business.
gte525u 9y ago
The article lists Elbit (an Israeli company) as the touchscreen provider.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

grey413 9y ago

US political and military protection.

VLM 9y ago

One strategy to airframe maint popularized by the USA would be a punishing maintenance load keeping all 72 operational. Another strategy popularized by Iran and their F-14 collection would be realistically only a fraction will remain operational over time due to maintenance and parts logistics limitations such that in 20 years they'd like to be able to field, perhaps, 16 actual flyable aircraft, which is realistic for a small state, a couple CAP, a couple hot standby, a couple for training, maybe the occasional very small raid, 16 or so is about right. As a side note about Iran's F14 collection IIRC the Iraqis claimed in hundreds of press releases, added up over the entire Iran-Iraq war, to have shot down more Iranian F14s than the USA had delivered to Iran... so giving Qatar 72 planes means at least 140 or so claimed kills by someone, eventually, LOL. And we also sell ADA missile systems and A-to-A missiles so 140 claimed kills is good for business.