8 ms·

Qatar's F-15s Will Feature New 'Low Profile' Heads Up Display and New Cockpit

75 points by ExcelSaga 9y ago

StavrosK 9y ago
I guess we've kind of lost the war on pointing out that it actually stands for "Head-Up Display"...
- 542458 9y ago
  Aren't both valid? Dictionary.com lists heads-up display: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hud?s=t http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hud?s=t
  - jessriedel 9y ago
    In fact, I think that is what it means to lose the war :)
- asdsa5325 9y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-up_display https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-up_display Both are valid
- kakarot 9y ago
  Depends on how many people are in the cockpit.
- olympus 9y ago
  Moot point, because a fighter pilot will never say "head." That and the word "box" are strictly prohibited.
  - ReverseCold 9y ago
    Interesting, why?
    - tomcooks 9y ago
      Apparently you are not supposed to say anything rude or even mildly sexually related on the PA, according to [0] No idea about "box" tho, is that even remotely sexual (not an english native)? [0](http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4224 http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4224)
      - grzm 9y ago
        http://urbandictionary.com http://urbandictionary.com is often helpful if you suspect there's something you might be missing. Even as a native speaker, I find it useful. I'm not always hip to the yout patois.
      - olympus 9y ago
        Box is slang for vagina.
    - olympus 9y ago
      It's a cultural thing. Fighter pilots play several games with each other, usually violating a rule means you have to pay money (the dead bug game and fixation on the number 69 are also interesting). They claim the games increase situational awareness, but it's really just an excuse to create a very tight culture (some would say exclusionary).
  - engi_nerd 9y ago
    Yup, I have heard many a fighter pilot say things like "Over-Cranial Projector" instead of "Overhead Projector".
bri3d 9y ago
Do any pilots want to chime in about the utility/value of touchscreen UIs vs. tactile controls in planes? As a non-pilot I don't really want to comment, but I know they're controversial and I personally find them obnoxious in cars.
- correnos 9y ago
  They suck. I've flown in a Cessna with a touchscreen transponder, and it was nearly impossible to enter the required four-number code in light turbulence. edit: That said, you could probably make a decent aviation touchscreen. The main issue with off-the-shelf screens is it's easy to brush the wrong thing. A screen that takes significant pressure to register a touch would probably be usable, and for all I know this system might do that.
  - kakarot 9y ago
    Well, there's your next startup idea.
    - olympus 9y ago
      It's not really a startup idea, it's just a bad choice that was made when equipping the plane (often the manufacturer's choice, not the purchaser's). Button and dial based options exist for every instrument and piece of avionics, even modern systems. The person making the equipment selection just fell victim to slick advertising photos instead of practicality, or got conned into buying a Lynx because they thought they were getting some sort of deal.
    - crististm 9y ago
      Real knobs _work_ and _worked_ for the past 100 years. You could replace them with touch screens if their advantages were compelling.
      - leetcrew 9y ago
        the key advantage that touchscreens have is that they show many different displays to expose different controls and information, while a physical panel necessarily offers less functionality in the same cockpit area. i think it would be really nice to combine physical controls with a digital display. either the buttons themselves could have little displays that show different labels depending on which mode you're in, or there could be generic buttons/knobs around the display whose function changes depending on what UI page you're on.
justinator 9y ago
Why does Qatar need 72 F-15s?
- rdl 9y ago
  They've managed to piss off Saudi Arabia/the rest of the GCC, and they are between the GCC and Iran. It's conceivable they could be fighting Iran, GCC, or both. There's an argument that having a lot of capability will deter actual aggression. 72 F-15s are a bargain compared to an actual war. It's also a way to buy closer relationship with the US. I'd feel a lot worse about any other country spending money on potentially needless arms; Qatar is solidly in the "we have extra money" range as a government.
  - danielvf 9y ago
    As you know, Saudi Arabia and Iran currently have a cold war going on, accompanied by proxy wars through out the Middle East. Qatar is a small peninsula sticking out of Saudi Arabia. It is smaller than the Falkland Islands. In 2017, Qatar and Saudi Arabia had a major falling out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Qatar_diplomatic_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Qatar_diplomat... SA demanded that Qatar shutdown Al-Jazeera and all other news orgs, break off relations with Iran, pay unspecified piles of money that SA got to determine, and "align itself with the other Gulf and Arab countries militarily, politically, socially and economically, as well as on economic matters...". SA and neighboring countries then closed the land border, and stopped allowing ships to unload cargo and transfer to smaller ships for delivery to Qatar. This affected almost all cargo headed into the country, since Qatar's port can't support large ships. The neighboring countries also announced that anyone who shows sympathy to Qatar "whether it be through the means of social media, or any type of written, visual or verbal form", would be subject to $130,000 fine and three to fifteen years in jail. And that's where things have been for the last nine months. -- (Qatar, Iran, and SA all fund terrorism and terrorist organizations. There are all busy playing the Middle East version of the game of thrones. Any sympathy I feel for Qatar is because they are one of the little guys in this fight.)
    - 9y ago
azernik 9y ago
Touchscreen provided by (drumroll) Elbit! The Israeli military electronics company. Qatar has always had a weird diplomatic position for an Arab state.
- tomcooks 9y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Qatar_relations https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Qatar_relatio... Qatar seems to have good diplomatic relations with that country, since the 90s
  - azernik 9y ago
    Yeah. And at the same time is considered a major Hamas supporter. And is a close US ally, and hosts the Taliban's exiled leadership. And is a GCC member, and maintains friendly ties with Iran. (Though the KSA has lost patience with that lately.) Qatar excels at playing both sides.
gaius 9y ago
Makes sense to upgrade a proven design rather than risk everything on the F35.
- engi_nerd 9y ago
  The F-15 is indeed a proven design, but against modern integrated air defense systems it is going to have a really, really hard time without extensive support from other platforms (EA-18G for protective jamming as just one example). And even then the crew of an F-15 may find themselves in a situation they can't survive. Even if F-35 isn't the answer, 4th generation aircraft have serious survivability issues.
John_KZ 9y ago
Is the "low profile" HUD any different than typical ones? Also why do they mix up the HMD? Is the HMD going to replace HUD by using some kind of parallax-free motion-compensating technology? I'm confused by the article.
fazilakhtar 9y ago
OTA updates are going to be brutal XD

75 points by ExcelSaga 9y ago

StavrosK 9y ago

I guess we've kind of lost the war on pointing out that it actually stands for "Head-Up Display"...

542458 9y ago
Aren't both valid? Dictionary.com lists heads-up display: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hud?s=t http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hud?s=t
- jessriedel 9y ago
  In fact, I think that is what it means to lose the war :)
asdsa5325 9y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-up_display https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-up_display Both are valid
kakarot 9y ago
Depends on how many people are in the cockpit.
olympus 9y ago
Moot point, because a fighter pilot will never say "head." That and the word "box" are strictly prohibited.
- ReverseCold 9y ago
  Interesting, why?
  - tomcooks 9y ago
    Apparently you are not supposed to say anything rude or even mildly sexually related on the PA, according to [0] No idea about "box" tho, is that even remotely sexual (not an english native)? [0](http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4224 http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4224)
    - grzm 9y ago
      http://urbandictionary.com http://urbandictionary.com is often helpful if you suspect there's something you might be missing. Even as a native speaker, I find it useful. I'm not always hip to the yout patois.
    - olympus 9y ago
      Box is slang for vagina.
  - olympus 9y ago
    It's a cultural thing. Fighter pilots play several games with each other, usually violating a rule means you have to pay money (the dead bug game and fixation on the number 69 are also interesting). They claim the games increase situational awareness, but it's really just an excuse to create a very tight culture (some would say exclusionary).
- engi_nerd 9y ago
  Yup, I have heard many a fighter pilot say things like "Over-Cranial Projector" instead of "Overhead Projector".

bri3d 9y ago

Do any pilots want to chime in about the utility/value of touchscreen UIs vs. tactile controls in planes? As a non-pilot I don't really want to comment, but I know they're controversial and I personally find them obnoxious in cars.

correnos 9y ago
They suck. I've flown in a Cessna with a touchscreen transponder, and it was nearly impossible to enter the required four-number code in light turbulence. edit: That said, you could probably make a decent aviation touchscreen. The main issue with off-the-shelf screens is it's easy to brush the wrong thing. A screen that takes significant pressure to register a touch would probably be usable, and for all I know this system might do that.
- kakarot 9y ago
  Well, there's your next startup idea.
  - olympus 9y ago
    It's not really a startup idea, it's just a bad choice that was made when equipping the plane (often the manufacturer's choice, not the purchaser's). Button and dial based options exist for every instrument and piece of avionics, even modern systems. The person making the equipment selection just fell victim to slick advertising photos instead of practicality, or got conned into buying a Lynx because they thought they were getting some sort of deal.
  - crististm 9y ago
    Real knobs _work_ and _worked_ for the past 100 years. You could replace them with touch screens if their advantages were compelling.
    - leetcrew 9y ago
      the key advantage that touchscreens have is that they show many different displays to expose different controls and information, while a physical panel necessarily offers less functionality in the same cockpit area. i think it would be really nice to combine physical controls with a digital display. either the buttons themselves could have little displays that show different labels depending on which mode you're in, or there could be generic buttons/knobs around the display whose function changes depending on what UI page you're on.

justinator 9y ago

Why does Qatar need 72 F-15s?

rdl 9y ago
They've managed to piss off Saudi Arabia/the rest of the GCC, and they are between the GCC and Iran. It's conceivable they could be fighting Iran, GCC, or both. There's an argument that having a lot of capability will deter actual aggression. 72 F-15s are a bargain compared to an actual war. It's also a way to buy closer relationship with the US. I'd feel a lot worse about any other country spending money on potentially needless arms; Qatar is solidly in the "we have extra money" range as a government.
- danielvf 9y ago
  As you know, Saudi Arabia and Iran currently have a cold war going on, accompanied by proxy wars through out the Middle East. Qatar is a small peninsula sticking out of Saudi Arabia. It is smaller than the Falkland Islands. In 2017, Qatar and Saudi Arabia had a major falling out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Qatar_diplomatic_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Qatar_diplomat... SA demanded that Qatar shutdown Al-Jazeera and all other news orgs, break off relations with Iran, pay unspecified piles of money that SA got to determine, and "align itself with the other Gulf and Arab countries militarily, politically, socially and economically, as well as on economic matters...". SA and neighboring countries then closed the land border, and stopped allowing ships to unload cargo and transfer to smaller ships for delivery to Qatar. This affected almost all cargo headed into the country, since Qatar's port can't support large ships. The neighboring countries also announced that anyone who shows sympathy to Qatar "whether it be through the means of social media, or any type of written, visual or verbal form", would be subject to $130,000 fine and three to fifteen years in jail. And that's where things have been for the last nine months. -- (Qatar, Iran, and SA all fund terrorism and terrorist organizations. There are all busy playing the Middle East version of the game of thrones. Any sympathy I feel for Qatar is because they are one of the little guys in this fight.)
  - 9y ago

azernik 9y ago

Touchscreen provided by (drumroll) Elbit! The Israeli military electronics company. Qatar has always had a weird diplomatic position for an Arab state.

tomcooks 9y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Qatar_relations https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Qatar_relatio... Qatar seems to have good diplomatic relations with that country, since the 90s
- azernik 9y ago
  Yeah. And at the same time is considered a major Hamas supporter. And is a close US ally, and hosts the Taliban's exiled leadership. And is a GCC member, and maintains friendly ties with Iran. (Though the KSA has lost patience with that lately.) Qatar excels at playing both sides.

gaius 9y ago

Makes sense to upgrade a proven design rather than risk everything on the F35.

engi_nerd 9y ago
The F-15 is indeed a proven design, but against modern integrated air defense systems it is going to have a really, really hard time without extensive support from other platforms (EA-18G for protective jamming as just one example). And even then the crew of an F-15 may find themselves in a situation they can't survive. Even if F-35 isn't the answer, 4th generation aircraft have serious survivability issues.

John_KZ 9y ago

Is the "low profile" HUD any different than typical ones? Also why do they mix up the HMD? Is the HMD going to replace HUD by using some kind of parallax-free motion-compensating technology? I'm confused by the article.

fazilakhtar 9y ago

OTA updates are going to be brutal XD