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> Swift 4.1 is a minor language release. It is source compatible with Swift 4.0. Nothing should break?

by dep_b 9y ago

protomyth 9y ago
Go to the Apple developer page of sample code https://developer.apple.com/library/content/navigation/#section=Resource%20Types&topic=Sample%20Code https://developer.apple.com/library/content/navigation/#sect... and see how much actually compiles, its not a lot.
saagarjha 9y ago
A lot of sample code is still Swift 1 or 2 code, which is not source compatible.
- ianai 9y ago
  Am I the only one who finds the rapid source incompatibilities problematic? Like maybe a language shouldn’t move so fast or be better nailed down before production.
  - matthewmacleod 9y ago
    You have two choices: bake the language fully before release, or push out what you have and get the community involved. I’d argue the second option is almost universally better.
    - ianai 9y ago
      Reasoning about effect aside, I walked away from an iOS project (personal) primarily because the language moved so fast it lot me.
      - dep_b 9y ago
        Swift changed less between 3 and 4 than between 1.0 and 1.1. The last two years or so have been fine for me.
      - rimliu 9y ago
        You could do it Objective-C.
      - matthewmacleod 9y ago
        I would say that a lot of people jumped on board with Swift before it should really have been used so widely. Objective C was - and still is! - a totally acceptable way to build an app for iOS.
  - saagarjha 9y ago
    Like another commenter has mentioned, Swift is now almost nearly source compatible. The compiler already provides support for any version of Swift back to version 3.2.
    - kbenson 9y ago
      Unfortunately, if what others here are stating is true, many of the examples date to Switch version 1 and 2...
      - saagarjha 9y ago
        > others You might want to check the username on that comment ;)
        kbenson 9y ago
        LOL. I was actually referring to your specifics and protomyth's general statements about much of it not compiling, but it's obvious you are familiar with whatever the situation is. :)
  - delhanty 9y ago
    I don't think you're the only one. Steve Troughton-Smith, Michael Lauer, Dan Leivers, Peter Molnar, Todd Thomas, Ian McDowell, Simon Wolf, Marco Arment all didn't seem (2017-10-04) in a particular hurry to adopt Swift. [0] https://www.hackingwithswift.com/articles/27/why-many-developers-still-prefer-objective-c-to-swift https://www.hackingwithswift.com/articles/27/why-many-develo...
    - saagarjha 9y ago
      I feel most of the developers there more more unhappy about the lack of ABI stability, poor tooling, and learning a new language than the constant changes that Swift has.
      - delhanty 9y ago
        Fair point, that's more precise. You're clearly better informed than me. The following quote from Steve Troughton-Smith in the article that I linked was enough for me - I'm not going to beta test Swift for Apple either. >I'm not yet convinced of Apple's level of participation in the language — four years on, Swift is not used for important pieces of iOS, OS or frameworks (I maintain a running list of Swift apps from Apple on Twitter, and macOS is definitely less shy about adopting it for new features than iOS). I understand why that is the case (ABI stability, etc), but if Apple's not using it for everything I don't see why I need to be beta-testing on their behalf. I lose nothing from waiting until Swift is 'ready', and I gain all the benefits of Objective-C in the meantime.
        saagarjha 9y ago
        Apple has actually gotten quite good at adopting Swift for new projects where ABI stability is not an issue. Off the top of my head, Picture-in-Picture, Dock, and Touch Bar on macOS, and Calculator and parts of the WWDC app on iOS are mostly Swift. New developer tools, such as Playgrounds and parts of Xcode are Swift as well. Of course, you’ll notice that none of the uses I mentioned were core frameworks, since these are places where Apple cannot use Swift code.
  - rimliu 9y ago
    Getting it out to be used by as many devs as possible is also a valid way of "nailing gown".
e28eta 9y ago
I saw a couple regressions, but I believe that was the goal

> Swift 4.1 is a minor language release. It is source compatible with Swift 4.0. Nothing should break?

by dep_b 9y ago

> Swift 4.1 is a minor language release. It is source compatible with Swift 4.0. Nothing should break?

Go to the Apple developer page of sample code https://developer.apple.com/library/content/navigation/#section=Resource%20Types&topic=Sample%20Code https://developer.apple.com/library/content/navigation/#sect... and see how much actually compiles, its not a lot.

saagarjha 9y ago

A lot of sample code is still Swift 1 or 2 code, which is not source compatible.

ianai 9y ago
Am I the only one who finds the rapid source incompatibilities problematic? Like maybe a language shouldn’t move so fast or be better nailed down before production.
- matthewmacleod 9y ago
  You have two choices: bake the language fully before release, or push out what you have and get the community involved. I’d argue the second option is almost universally better.
  - ianai 9y ago
    Reasoning about effect aside, I walked away from an iOS project (personal) primarily because the language moved so fast it lot me.
    - dep_b 9y ago
      Swift changed less between 3 and 4 than between 1.0 and 1.1. The last two years or so have been fine for me.
    - rimliu 9y ago
      You could do it Objective-C.
    - matthewmacleod 9y ago
      I would say that a lot of people jumped on board with Swift before it should really have been used so widely. Objective C was - and still is! - a totally acceptable way to build an app for iOS.
- saagarjha 9y ago
  Like another commenter has mentioned, Swift is now almost nearly source compatible. The compiler already provides support for any version of Swift back to version 3.2.
  - kbenson 9y ago
    Unfortunately, if what others here are stating is true, many of the examples date to Switch version 1 and 2...
    - saagarjha 9y ago
      > others You might want to check the username on that comment ;)
      - kbenson 9y ago
        LOL. I was actually referring to your specifics and protomyth's general statements about much of it not compiling, but it's obvious you are familiar with whatever the situation is. :)
- delhanty 9y ago
  I don't think you're the only one. Steve Troughton-Smith, Michael Lauer, Dan Leivers, Peter Molnar, Todd Thomas, Ian McDowell, Simon Wolf, Marco Arment all didn't seem (2017-10-04) in a particular hurry to adopt Swift. [0] https://www.hackingwithswift.com/articles/27/why-many-developers-still-prefer-objective-c-to-swift https://www.hackingwithswift.com/articles/27/why-many-develo...
  - saagarjha 9y ago
    I feel most of the developers there more more unhappy about the lack of ABI stability, poor tooling, and learning a new language than the constant changes that Swift has.
    - delhanty 9y ago
      Fair point, that's more precise. You're clearly better informed than me. The following quote from Steve Troughton-Smith in the article that I linked was enough for me - I'm not going to beta test Swift for Apple either. >I'm not yet convinced of Apple's level of participation in the language — four years on, Swift is not used for important pieces of iOS, OS or frameworks (I maintain a running list of Swift apps from Apple on Twitter, and macOS is definitely less shy about adopting it for new features than iOS). I understand why that is the case (ABI stability, etc), but if Apple's not using it for everything I don't see why I need to be beta-testing on their behalf. I lose nothing from waiting until Swift is 'ready', and I gain all the benefits of Objective-C in the meantime.
      - saagarjha 9y ago
        Apple has actually gotten quite good at adopting Swift for new projects where ABI stability is not an issue. Off the top of my head, Picture-in-Picture, Dock, and Touch Bar on macOS, and Calculator and parts of the WWDC app on iOS are mostly Swift. New developer tools, such as Playgrounds and parts of Xcode are Swift as well. Of course, you’ll notice that none of the uses I mentioned were core frameworks, since these are places where Apple cannot use Swift code.
- rimliu 9y ago
  Getting it out to be used by as many devs as possible is also a valid way of "nailing gown".

e28eta 9y ago

I saw a couple regressions, but I believe that was the goal