6 ms·

what stands out to me, is what appears to be the "get rich quick nature" of all the articles. call me old fashion, but at that age I'd rather be teaching kids t

what stands out to me, is what appears to be the "get rich quick nature" of all the articles. call me old fashion, but at that age I'd rather be teaching kids the value of hard work, delayed gratification, research, skepticism, etc, etc. In fact I'd rather kids would read the WSJ than this garbage, at least then they'd understand how hard it is to start and maintain a business. Otherwise you're setting this kids up to follow every MLM trap they got offered later on in life. HODL HODL HODL am i right?

kristianc 9y ago
As opposed to 'I generated $32k in 30 days selling a crypto USB stick' that is currently #3 on this forum? Or is that completely different?
- enticeing 9y ago
  You're saying that like spaceflunky's comment included an endorsement for that post, or that his posting a comment here means that he approves of every single post on the site.
  - kristianc 9y ago
    I'm saying that there seems to be a disparity in the value judgements the HN hive-mind applies to itself, and the entrepreneurial activities of young women. Go on the thread for yourself, there are lots of people picking apart the idea, but no one saying the creator is foolhardy for favoring an entrepreneurial career / calling him a scammer.
    - hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
      I think the "get rich quick" schemes here are just as bad, but I don't think it's a logical inconsistency to argue that it's one thing to target these kinds of articles to adults and quite another to target them to young children.
      - spaceflunky 9y ago
        100% agree. And that's my point. There is a level of discernment and skepticism you should have as an adult. While those skills are not common enough in adults, it's rare that ANY 10 year old anywhere would have the life experience to develop those skills. Also making this business activity socially acceptable for kids opens the door to parents putting pressure on their kids to make money ("WHY ISN'T MY 12 A VIRAL BEAUTY GURU!?!?!" says some soccer mom). I'm also willing to bet most of these kids have parental involvement, so it opens the door to parents 'pimping out' their kids so they can market some shitty product with an edge of it being sold by a kid. At that age, kids should be focused on developing fundamental skills instead of focusing on their brand or get rich. What's wrong with saying something is ok for adults but not for kids?
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        itronitron 9y ago
        Many of the young people with channels on youtube are focusing on stuff they are already having fun with and in the process of creating videos and promotion are acquiring and learning valuable skills. I expect that most teens reading articles in Teen Boss are going to see through the bullshit pretty quickly. The flip-side is the pimping parent who is trying to brand their kids into a youtube star, those people need to be stopped. Luckily most of the young people active on youtube have parents that are not pressuring them...
        spaceflunky 9y ago
        I sort of agree with you that some kids are doing it for the love. But I think they are in the minority. No matter how much you love something posting 3 videos a week has got to zap the fun out of it especially for a kid. Also I don’t believe at all that a 12 year is really passionate about building a line of “eco friendly” skin care products and the botanical mixtures (like one of the girls on the cover of teen bo$$).
        kristianc 9y ago
    - sanderjd 9y ago
      Maybe we read different articles (or different comments) but my sense is that commenters here as a whole were earlier and are more consistent in their criticism and dismissal of "crypto" scams. I'd already been reading warnings here for a year or two by the time I started seeing this stuff mindlessly hocked in mainstream sources. (Your broader point may be right, I just don't think the current crop of scams is a great example.)
    - whafalloon 9y ago
      there is no hive mind, there is no “it”. there are individuals, and all of us have our own minds. your collectivism is a misapplied abstraction leaking reality at every seam
      - asfasgasg 9y ago
        Communities are things. Just because they are made up of individuals does not mean they lack group properties and tendencies. Saying that would be like claiming a glass of water can't have surface tension because it's made up of individual atoms.
      - jcora 9y ago
        Lmao 'Individuals' on HN (or 20-something CS guy from the U.S.) and their 'unique opinions' are so fucking similar and revolve around a couple of basic platitudes and ideologems Pretty much anything that isn't a specific technical subject is totally boring and predictable on HN Also your last sentence is painfully cringey to read
        leetcrew 9y ago
        idk how you could not notice that any voting-based link aggregator or comment section has a hive mind effect.
- TomVDB 9y ago
  It's different in that virtually all HN comments on that article are negative.
- zamalek 9y ago
  How many failures came before that? Nobody sings praises about those, even though they are the most important part.
- andrepd 9y ago
  I don't follow. What's the connection?
- jee1shi 9y ago
  Do you have a link to that article?
rayiner 9y ago
When have kids ever read the WSJ? This is an alternative to passive media consumption. Hell “how to build your brand by being you” is the gist of a ton of the articles you see in Forbes, etc, just with more glitter.
- Taniwha 9y ago
  um, cough .... Alex Keaton ...
  - spondyl 9y ago
    Oooh, a fellow NZ HNer :wave:
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
lkrubner 9y ago
And also, what if they are lucky enough to get close to success? How should they handle it? When should they trust their own instincts, versus when should they defer to experience? I've written at length regarding what happened when a 22 year old was given $1.3 million dollars and the chance the run with a great startup idea. A very cutting edge idea that was full of potential. It should have become something great. But the mistakes made were of a type that might be expected from a lack of experience. That is the flip side of it. Endlessly shouting "Express yourself and amazing things will happen!" is a bit of a trap. It doesn't prepare kids to handle the lucky breaks that some of them will undoubtedly get. https://www.amazon.com/Destroy-Tech-Startup-Easy-Steps/dp/0998997617/ https://www.amazon.com/Destroy-Tech-Startup-Easy-Steps/dp/09...
ImSkeptical 9y ago
Earlier today I was reading an old AMA by PewDiePie on reddit. A recurring theme was asking him how he got so successful. He talked about how he was there at the right time, had a good niche, great fans, got lucky, etc. Someone replied to him, reminding him that he also uploaded videos three times a day for years. I agree that instant gratification is a problem, but it doesn't strike me as bad that kids might think YouTube or social media or whatever is an easy way to make money, and then try their hand at it. I think they'll quickly find that success still takes effort and perseverance.
maruhan2 9y ago
"hard work, delayed gratification, research, skepticism" I feel like the best way to learn that is try it out yourself, which is what such magazines are encouraging no?
GuB-42 9y ago
The good thing with being a kid is that you can fail. Better try a get rich quick scheme in these conditions and learn from your mistakes than when you need the money to survive.
- itronitron 9y ago
  Yeah, many of the gamer/maker youtubers provide a lot of insight into the work involved in creating a successful youtube channel. For every successful youtuber there are many aspiring ones, mostly kids, who are putting a lot of work into it on both the creation and marketing ends. They already know or learn quickly that it is not a get rich quick scheme, and young people, in comparison to adults, seem to have a better handle on social influence and how important it is for monetization as well as how tenuous and meaningless it is from an actual social viewpoint.
cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
Most YouTubers never get to a point where they can make enough to make it their main job. Which means most of them get to experience failure early on in their life. I think this is a good thing for them in the long term. As someone who just followed through all the usual treadmill of doing well in school, going to top college, etc. just to find out later that there was this entirely different and more exciting world of entrepreneurship where I can decide my own destiny, I think it's good to experience failure as early as possible in your life. A lot of people who are not cut out for unstable life will realize it's not for them and just go on to live a stable life without regret, and many others who can recover from the failure, will have learned some lesson which can be helpful in their future adventure. Also "Garbage" is a subjective term, I personally see many mainstream journalism driven by ad revenue much more garbage than many Youtubers who create unique content that you won't get anywhere else. A lot of the successful ones actually start out doing Youtube because they're passionate about the topic they make videos on. It's the failures who jump in just for the money.
creep 9y ago
Kids will learn. Tween-aged kids have no conception for how difficult life can be and it doesn't matter how much you tell them so. The point with kids is to build up their confidence and sense of possibility, and help explain to them the specific consequences for the mistakes they inevitably make as they test out this possibility. Telling young girls they can "get rich quick" is not the best way to go about all this, but it mostly serves to show, in part, what is possible. Girls are not reading these flashy magazines for deep reading. It's not something they consciously mull over as they read-- the effect is subconscious. The more magazines consumed, the more the messages of what's possible become more concrete in the background, and she will start to pay attention to the Youtubers she loves from a different perspective-- one of gathering tips and watching for how they became successful. That is, if she wants to start a business anyways. Mostly moms pick up these magazines for their kids. edit: I also want to say that becoming successful in an enterprise like Youtube while one is young is phenomenal for confidence. Even just starting to create is very good for confidence. The venture won't last forever, but the adult will always have the confidence they built in their younger years.

kristianc 9y ago

As opposed to 'I generated $32k in 30 days selling a crypto USB stick' that is currently #3 on this forum? Or is that completely different?

enticeing 9y ago
You're saying that like spaceflunky's comment included an endorsement for that post, or that his posting a comment here means that he approves of every single post on the site.
- kristianc 9y ago
  I'm saying that there seems to be a disparity in the value judgements the HN hive-mind applies to itself, and the entrepreneurial activities of young women. Go on the thread for yourself, there are lots of people picking apart the idea, but no one saying the creator is foolhardy for favoring an entrepreneurial career / calling him a scammer.
  - hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
    I think the "get rich quick" schemes here are just as bad, but I don't think it's a logical inconsistency to argue that it's one thing to target these kinds of articles to adults and quite another to target them to young children.
    - spaceflunky 9y ago
      100% agree. And that's my point. There is a level of discernment and skepticism you should have as an adult. While those skills are not common enough in adults, it's rare that ANY 10 year old anywhere would have the life experience to develop those skills. Also making this business activity socially acceptable for kids opens the door to parents putting pressure on their kids to make money ("WHY ISN'T MY 12 A VIRAL BEAUTY GURU!?!?!" says some soccer mom). I'm also willing to bet most of these kids have parental involvement, so it opens the door to parents 'pimping out' their kids so they can market some shitty product with an edge of it being sold by a kid. At that age, kids should be focused on developing fundamental skills instead of focusing on their brand or get rich. What's wrong with saying something is ok for adults but not for kids?
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - itronitron 9y ago
        Many of the young people with channels on youtube are focusing on stuff they are already having fun with and in the process of creating videos and promotion are acquiring and learning valuable skills. I expect that most teens reading articles in Teen Boss are going to see through the bullshit pretty quickly. The flip-side is the pimping parent who is trying to brand their kids into a youtube star, those people need to be stopped. Luckily most of the young people active on youtube have parents that are not pressuring them...
        spaceflunky 9y ago
        I sort of agree with you that some kids are doing it for the love. But I think they are in the minority. No matter how much you love something posting 3 videos a week has got to zap the fun out of it especially for a kid. Also I don’t believe at all that a 12 year is really passionate about building a line of “eco friendly” skin care products and the botanical mixtures (like one of the girls on the cover of teen bo$$).
      - kristianc 9y ago
  - sanderjd 9y ago
    Maybe we read different articles (or different comments) but my sense is that commenters here as a whole were earlier and are more consistent in their criticism and dismissal of "crypto" scams. I'd already been reading warnings here for a year or two by the time I started seeing this stuff mindlessly hocked in mainstream sources. (Your broader point may be right, I just don't think the current crop of scams is a great example.)
  - whafalloon 9y ago
    there is no hive mind, there is no “it”. there are individuals, and all of us have our own minds. your collectivism is a misapplied abstraction leaking reality at every seam
    - asfasgasg 9y ago
      Communities are things. Just because they are made up of individuals does not mean they lack group properties and tendencies. Saying that would be like claiming a glass of water can't have surface tension because it's made up of individual atoms.
    - jcora 9y ago
      Lmao 'Individuals' on HN (or 20-something CS guy from the U.S.) and their 'unique opinions' are so fucking similar and revolve around a couple of basic platitudes and ideologems Pretty much anything that isn't a specific technical subject is totally boring and predictable on HN Also your last sentence is painfully cringey to read
      - leetcrew 9y ago
        idk how you could not notice that any voting-based link aggregator or comment section has a hive mind effect.
TomVDB 9y ago
It's different in that virtually all HN comments on that article are negative.
zamalek 9y ago
How many failures came before that? Nobody sings praises about those, even though they are the most important part.
andrepd 9y ago
I don't follow. What's the connection?
jee1shi 9y ago
Do you have a link to that article?

rayiner 9y ago

When have kids ever read the WSJ? This is an alternative to passive media consumption. Hell “how to build your brand by being you” is the gist of a ton of the articles you see in Forbes, etc, just with more glitter.

Taniwha 9y ago
um, cough .... Alex Keaton ...
- spondyl 9y ago
  Oooh, a fellow NZ HNer :wave:
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

lkrubner 9y ago

And also, what if they are lucky enough to get close to success? How should they handle it? When should they trust their own instincts, versus when should they defer to experience? I've written at length regarding what happened when a 22 year old was given $1.3 million dollars and the chance the run with a great startup idea. A very cutting edge idea that was full of potential. It should have become something great. But the mistakes made were of a type that might be expected from a lack of experience. That is the flip side of it. Endlessly shouting "Express yourself and amazing things will happen!" is a bit of a trap. It doesn't prepare kids to handle the lucky breaks that some of them will undoubtedly get. https://www.amazon.com/Destroy-Tech-Startup-Easy-Steps/dp/0998997617/ https://www.amazon.com/Destroy-Tech-Startup-Easy-Steps/dp/09...

ImSkeptical 9y ago

Earlier today I was reading an old AMA by PewDiePie on reddit. A recurring theme was asking him how he got so successful. He talked about how he was there at the right time, had a good niche, great fans, got lucky, etc. Someone replied to him, reminding him that he also uploaded videos three times a day for years. I agree that instant gratification is a problem, but it doesn't strike me as bad that kids might think YouTube or social media or whatever is an easy way to make money, and then try their hand at it. I think they'll quickly find that success still takes effort and perseverance.

maruhan2 9y ago

"hard work, delayed gratification, research, skepticism" I feel like the best way to learn that is try it out yourself, which is what such magazines are encouraging no?

GuB-42 9y ago

The good thing with being a kid is that you can fail. Better try a get rich quick scheme in these conditions and learn from your mistakes than when you need the money to survive.

itronitron 9y ago
Yeah, many of the gamer/maker youtubers provide a lot of insight into the work involved in creating a successful youtube channel. For every successful youtuber there are many aspiring ones, mostly kids, who are putting a lot of work into it on both the creation and marketing ends. They already know or learn quickly that it is not a get rich quick scheme, and young people, in comparison to adults, seem to have a better handle on social influence and how important it is for monetization as well as how tenuous and meaningless it is from an actual social viewpoint.

cocktailpeanuts 9y ago

Most YouTubers never get to a point where they can make enough to make it their main job. Which means most of them get to experience failure early on in their life. I think this is a good thing for them in the long term. As someone who just followed through all the usual treadmill of doing well in school, going to top college, etc. just to find out later that there was this entirely different and more exciting world of entrepreneurship where I can decide my own destiny, I think it's good to experience failure as early as possible in your life. A lot of people who are not cut out for unstable life will realize it's not for them and just go on to live a stable life without regret, and many others who can recover from the failure, will have learned some lesson which can be helpful in their future adventure. Also "Garbage" is a subjective term, I personally see many mainstream journalism driven by ad revenue much more garbage than many Youtubers who create unique content that you won't get anywhere else. A lot of the successful ones actually start out doing Youtube because they're passionate about the topic they make videos on. It's the failures who jump in just for the money.

creep 9y ago

Kids will learn. Tween-aged kids have no conception for how difficult life can be and it doesn't matter how much you tell them so. The point with kids is to build up their confidence and sense of possibility, and help explain to them the specific consequences for the mistakes they inevitably make as they test out this possibility. Telling young girls they can "get rich quick" is not the best way to go about all this, but it mostly serves to show, in part, what is possible. Girls are not reading these flashy magazines for deep reading. It's not something they consciously mull over as they read-- the effect is subconscious. The more magazines consumed, the more the messages of what's possible become more concrete in the background, and she will start to pay attention to the Youtubers she loves from a different perspective-- one of gathering tips and watching for how they became successful. That is, if she wants to start a business anyways. Mostly moms pick up these magazines for their kids. edit: I also want to say that becoming successful in an enterprise like Youtube while one is young is phenomenal for confidence. Even just starting to create is very good for confidence. The venture won't last forever, but the adult will always have the confidence they built in their younger years.