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> consumer will not be fired if they habitually fail to clean things properly You summed it up right there. Consumers cannot be reasonably expected to clean to

> consumer will not be fired if they habitually fail to clean things properly You summed it up right there. Consumers cannot be reasonably expected to clean to the level of a commercial operation. The thing is with these brushes, they are sold right alongside other scrapers and brushes as if they can be used with exactly the same level of casual concern. There is often, at best, tiny legalese text on the packaging about the bristles being a hazard. There is no commercial kitchen staff training about the dangers of these tiny pieces of wire getting into food. People at home do not have huge liability to customers eating at their house and expect the burden of safety to be on the producer of the products they are using. I am not necessarily saying ban these things, but they should come with clear and obvious warnings and realistic operating instructions that if followed would result in no chance of harm. That's on the manufacturer surely. What if I made a skillet that secreted tiny amounts of arsenic that unless scrubbed thoroughly with bleach and then run through an ultra-high temp dishwasher after every use would eventually poison you? This might be fine for a kitchen crew who is educated about the proper usage, but the average home user would just wash it with dish-soap. I'm all for keeping legislation light, but when there is a known persistent problem that manufacturers ignore and don't self regulate, it's time to step in and apply a mechanism to ensure reasonable responsibility.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago
>You summed it up right there. Consumers cannot be reasonably expected to clean to the level of a commercial operation. "to the level of a commercial operation" just means actually washing it, not just scraping the hard stuff off and calling it good. It is not labor intensive on a per item basis nor is there any special equipment involved. >There is often, at best, tiny legalese text on the packaging about the bristles being a hazard. Which is enough as far as I care. The physical characteristics that make the bristles do their job also makes them hazardous to ingest. It's the same as a knife needing to be sharp. >People at home do not have huge liability to customers eating at their house and expect the burden of safety to be on the producer of the products they are using. People at home don't have customers to be liable to. >What if I made a skillet that secreted tiny amounts of arsenic that unless scrubbed thoroughly with bleach and then run through an ultra-high temp dishwasher after every use would eventually poison you? This might be fine for a kitchen crew who is educated about the proper usage, but the average home user would just wash it with dish-soap. The difference is that the frying pan in that hypothetical example requires expensive specialized equipment that consumers do not typically have in order be used properly.
- monkeynotes 9y ago
  > "to the level of a commercial operation" just means actually washing it, not just scraping the hard stuff off and calling it good. It is not labor intensive on a per item basis nor is there any special equipment involved. Are you actually aware of what we are talking about? We are talking about filthy, greasy BBQ grills covered in baked on crap that is really hard to get off, some people use pressure washers. There is special equipment involved, namely special steel bristle brushes that deposit tiny bristles that need to be dealt with in a very specialized way as seen in commercial kitchens where they have stainless easy wipe down surfaces and huge sinks so that everything can be carefully cleaned after each service. > It's the same as a knife needing to be sharp Deep down, you know this isn't true. A knife is very well known to be sharp and is obviously a hazard. A wire brush has hidden dangers. Bristles are expected to remain attached, but unknown to many users they come off when cleaning and then even more unknown to them they get into food and can cause trauma in the body and are very hard to get removed. > Which is enough as far as I care Well, I am not talking about you, I can see beyond you to the numerous people who have ended up in the ER. This is the problem regardless of how much you scoff at their ignorance, apathy toward sterility, and general lethargy at the family grill on Sunday. > the contents of the average consumer kitchen were not designed to quickly and easily cleanable > The difference is that the frying pan in that hypothetical example requires expensive specialized equipment Erm, isn't this the same? In your examples you are describing specialist commercial equipment, and so in mine I was also.
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    >Are you actually aware of what we are talking about? We are talking about filthy, greasy BBQ grills covered in baked on crap that is really hard to get off, some people use pressure washers. When cleaned properly reasonably soon after each use is never gets to that point. There is special equipment involved, namely special steel bristle brushes A wire brush is not anymore specialize equipment than a shovel is. >that deposit tiny bristles that need to be dealt with in a very specialized way as seen in commercial kitchens where they have stainless easy wipe down surfaces and huge sinks so that everything can be carefully cleaned after each service. Things don't get cleaned carefully in a commercial kitchen. Things get cleaned as quickly as possible. Things are designed to be easy to clean so that less man hours are spent cleaning and more are spent on things that make money. There's no reason you can't clean things just as well at home. It will simply take more time and effort. That would be a big pain if you had to clean a stack of sheet pans at home but for one grill it's no big deal. >Deep down, you know this isn't true. A knife is very well known to be sharp and is obviously a hazard. A wire brush has hidden dangers. Bristles are expected to remain attached, but unknown to many users they come off when cleaning and then even more unknown to them they get into food and can cause trauma in the body and are very hard to get removed. If you've ever uses a wire brush regularly you know that the bristles come off as a part of normal wear. >Erm, isn't this the same? In your examples you are describing specialist commercial equipment, and so in mine I was also. No they're not. The dishwasher was a literal need. The well designed sinks and counters are an efficiency/profitability thing. The job can still be done without them but would require more labor.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago

>You summed it up right there. Consumers cannot be reasonably expected to clean to the level of a commercial operation. "to the level of a commercial operation" just means actually washing it, not just scraping the hard stuff off and calling it good. It is not labor intensive on a per item basis nor is there any special equipment involved. >There is often, at best, tiny legalese text on the packaging about the bristles being a hazard. Which is enough as far as I care. The physical characteristics that make the bristles do their job also makes them hazardous to ingest. It's the same as a knife needing to be sharp. >People at home do not have huge liability to customers eating at their house and expect the burden of safety to be on the producer of the products they are using. People at home don't have customers to be liable to. >What if I made a skillet that secreted tiny amounts of arsenic that unless scrubbed thoroughly with bleach and then run through an ultra-high temp dishwasher after every use would eventually poison you? This might be fine for a kitchen crew who is educated about the proper usage, but the average home user would just wash it with dish-soap. The difference is that the frying pan in that hypothetical example requires expensive specialized equipment that consumers do not typically have in order be used properly.

monkeynotes 9y ago
> "to the level of a commercial operation" just means actually washing it, not just scraping the hard stuff off and calling it good. It is not labor intensive on a per item basis nor is there any special equipment involved. Are you actually aware of what we are talking about? We are talking about filthy, greasy BBQ grills covered in baked on crap that is really hard to get off, some people use pressure washers. There is special equipment involved, namely special steel bristle brushes that deposit tiny bristles that need to be dealt with in a very specialized way as seen in commercial kitchens where they have stainless easy wipe down surfaces and huge sinks so that everything can be carefully cleaned after each service. > It's the same as a knife needing to be sharp Deep down, you know this isn't true. A knife is very well known to be sharp and is obviously a hazard. A wire brush has hidden dangers. Bristles are expected to remain attached, but unknown to many users they come off when cleaning and then even more unknown to them they get into food and can cause trauma in the body and are very hard to get removed. > Which is enough as far as I care Well, I am not talking about you, I can see beyond you to the numerous people who have ended up in the ER. This is the problem regardless of how much you scoff at their ignorance, apathy toward sterility, and general lethargy at the family grill on Sunday. > the contents of the average consumer kitchen were not designed to quickly and easily cleanable > The difference is that the frying pan in that hypothetical example requires expensive specialized equipment Erm, isn't this the same? In your examples you are describing specialist commercial equipment, and so in mine I was also.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  >Are you actually aware of what we are talking about? We are talking about filthy, greasy BBQ grills covered in baked on crap that is really hard to get off, some people use pressure washers. When cleaned properly reasonably soon after each use is never gets to that point. There is special equipment involved, namely special steel bristle brushes A wire brush is not anymore specialize equipment than a shovel is. >that deposit tiny bristles that need to be dealt with in a very specialized way as seen in commercial kitchens where they have stainless easy wipe down surfaces and huge sinks so that everything can be carefully cleaned after each service. Things don't get cleaned carefully in a commercial kitchen. Things get cleaned as quickly as possible. Things are designed to be easy to clean so that less man hours are spent cleaning and more are spent on things that make money. There's no reason you can't clean things just as well at home. It will simply take more time and effort. That would be a big pain if you had to clean a stack of sheet pans at home but for one grill it's no big deal. >Deep down, you know this isn't true. A knife is very well known to be sharp and is obviously a hazard. A wire brush has hidden dangers. Bristles are expected to remain attached, but unknown to many users they come off when cleaning and then even more unknown to them they get into food and can cause trauma in the body and are very hard to get removed. If you've ever uses a wire brush regularly you know that the bristles come off as a part of normal wear. >Erm, isn't this the same? In your examples you are describing specialist commercial equipment, and so in mine I was also. No they're not. The dishwasher was a literal need. The well designed sinks and counters are an efficiency/profitability thing. The job can still be done without them but would require more labor.