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Calm down. You are part of the problem. You piss off otherwise inclusive and reasonable people with such nonsense. JourneyMAN doesn’t mean an actual “man.” That

Calm down. You are part of the problem. You piss off otherwise inclusive and reasonable people with such nonsense. JourneyMAN doesn’t mean an actual “man.” That is an archaic interpretation to suggest a journeyman means “man.” We don’t call “fishermen” “fisherpersons” — that’s just silly. You can have female fisherman.

whostolemyhat 9y ago
Cool, so you'd have no problem if the title everyone had to use was journeywoman? You could have male journeywoman, so there'd be no problem there.
- Double_a_92 9y ago
  If it had a historical background and was a common word in everyday language, I guess not. If however you would just call it like that to make it female on purpose and out of defiance... Then I guess I wouldn't accept it.
- salawat 9y ago
  Just stop, please. The point of journeyman in connection to a trade is as a point on a scale of relative skill and has no meaning in the place of determing the accidental characteristics of the wielder of the title EXCEPT relative competency in the trade. "Man" has been a catch all for human practitioner when who the practitioner is isn't essential to the context. The title of journeyman elevates whomever bears it in the eyes of a trade. It grants equivalence no matter whom it is applied to. If you wish to call yourself a journeywoman, do so. Don't be surprised when the rest of the trade still refers to you as a journeyman. Tools don't care who wields them. And finished works' quality depends only on skill. Not gender. Hate to see of what your views on Bachelor's Degrees are.
KhanMahGretsch 9y ago
Isn't "-man" an abbreviation of "human"? Justin Trudeau made a gaffe recently when an audience member referred to "mankind" and he erroneously insisted that she instead use the term "peoplekind". Surely "humankind" would be the term requested, if one felt the need to be pedantic.
dang 9y ago
Please don't cross into personal swipes regardless of how wrong you think someone is. Your comment after this one began with "You can fuck off if". The vector formed by these two points leads toward getting banned here. We've already had to ask you many times, and have cut you a ton of slack on this site. Please use the site as intended—for intellectual curiosity; please don't be uncivil; and please don't use HN primarily for political or ideological battle. That's not too much to ask, and most users have no trouble getting there. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

whostolemyhat 9y ago

Cool, so you'd have no problem if the title everyone had to use was journeywoman? You could have male journeywoman, so there'd be no problem there.

Double_a_92 9y ago
If it had a historical background and was a common word in everyday language, I guess not. If however you would just call it like that to make it female on purpose and out of defiance... Then I guess I wouldn't accept it.
salawat 9y ago
Just stop, please. The point of journeyman in connection to a trade is as a point on a scale of relative skill and has no meaning in the place of determing the accidental characteristics of the wielder of the title EXCEPT relative competency in the trade. "Man" has been a catch all for human practitioner when who the practitioner is isn't essential to the context. The title of journeyman elevates whomever bears it in the eyes of a trade. It grants equivalence no matter whom it is applied to. If you wish to call yourself a journeywoman, do so. Don't be surprised when the rest of the trade still refers to you as a journeyman. Tools don't care who wields them. And finished works' quality depends only on skill. Not gender. Hate to see of what your views on Bachelor's Degrees are.

KhanMahGretsch 9y ago

Isn't "-man" an abbreviation of "human"? Justin Trudeau made a gaffe recently when an audience member referred to "mankind" and he erroneously insisted that she instead use the term "peoplekind". Surely "humankind" would be the term requested, if one felt the need to be pedantic.

dang 9y ago

Please don't cross into personal swipes regardless of how wrong you think someone is. Your comment after this one began with "You can fuck off if". The vector formed by these two points leads toward getting banned here. We've already had to ask you many times, and have cut you a ton of slack on this site. Please use the site as intended—for intellectual curiosity; please don't be uncivil; and please don't use HN primarily for political or ideological battle. That's not too much to ask, and most users have no trouble getting there. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html