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FWIW when i apply to a job and get sent back a coding exercise, without first even talking to me, that's usually a red flag for me and i do not proceed with the

FWIW when i apply to a job and get sent back a coding exercise, without first even talking to me, that's usually a red flag for me and i do not proceed with them - although I do communicate that I prefer to have some kind of chat so i know there is a culture fit, before i potentially throw hours of my life away.

bartread 9y ago
Fair. But one of the things you end up realising is you can't come up with the perfect process that will please all applicants. One thing I should have mentioned as well is how I handle referrals, because it's quite different. I always skip the assessment or telescreen in favour of some sort of face to face: - Invite them in to the office, have coffee, find out more about them, let them meet some of the team, show them what we're working on, maybe have lunch, - Have a more low-key meeting in a cafe or pub. In both cases it's about getting to know them better and giving them the opportunity to figure out whether they're really interested in the role: i.e., not a traditional interview. If they are interested, then we go straight to a technical interview. The above is important because it's a key route for more senior hires. As a result, certainly at the beginning of the process, it's very much tailored to the candidate at an individual level.
- briandear 9y ago
  How about reading their resume and cover letter? Looking at a github link, checking out their LinkedIn. You know, actually do YOUR job rather than wasting every single applicants time. Maybe good engineers are self unselecting because your assembly line screening process turned them off. Look at the hiring process at Apple or Google for examples of how to do it well. Apply; respond to applications with a request for a phone screen or a rejection letter. Do the phone screen. Those that pass, do a technical interview via FaceTime, then those that pass that, send them to the final round. If you reject anyone during the process, notify them immediately. Be respectful to the candidates and you will end up with better hires. Don’t treat them like you are doing them a favor: you aren’t.
  - meesterdude 9y ago
    > Apply; respond to applications with a request for a phone screen or a rejection letter. Do the phone screen. Those that pass, do a technical interview via FaceTime, then those that pass that, send them to the final round. If you reject anyone during the process, notify them immediately. nailed it. is that really so much to ask?
    - bartread 9y ago
      You may not have read what I wrote properly: that is exactly what I do at the moment. (We get vastly fewer applicants.) Thing is, that doesn't scale too well. And when you reach the point when it doesn't, you need to do something else - particularly when you have a day job to do on top of recruitment.
  - bartread 9y ago
    > You know, actually do YOUR job rather than wasting every single applicants time. I'm not wasting anyone's time. Nobody has to do anything - you can just ignore the invitation and that's fine. I'm certainly not wasting anyone's time any more than they're wasting my time submitting a subpar application for a job they're not really that interested in. Maybe you were having a bad day but, in case not, let me say: nobody owes you a living. Like it or not, you need to earn it.
megy 9y ago
Me too, but I guess it would be different if I didn't have a job/hadn't had one before.
amorphid 9y ago
I also kind of agree. If I do something for you, it's nice if you do something for me. So if I put work in to thoughtfully apply, I'm kind of expecting you to do more work than flinging a coding exercise at me. As a recruiter, I saw companies spam every candidate with a coding exercise only to never review many applications w/ completed exercises.
- meesterdude 9y ago
  > I saw companies spam every candidate with a coding exercise only to never review many applications w/ completed exercises. this is my experience - and why i don't do them out the gate. Because there's a strong chance my work won't even be seen or reviewed - and i have had this happen enough times to know that i should just say no.
- bartread 9y ago
  > As a recruiter, I saw companies spam every candidate with a coding exercise only to never review many applications w/ completed exercises. I'm really sorry you had that experience. For what it's worth I've sat on the other side of the fence: spent a couple of hours working on something only to hear nothing in response. It sucks. I hope I made it clear above, but my very strong recommendation is that if somebody has sent in a solution to a coding assessment, then you should be taking the time to give them personalised feedback rather than some stock response. If that didn't come across then I apologise.

bartread 9y ago

Fair. But one of the things you end up realising is you can't come up with the perfect process that will please all applicants. One thing I should have mentioned as well is how I handle referrals, because it's quite different. I always skip the assessment or telescreen in favour of some sort of face to face: - Invite them in to the office, have coffee, find out more about them, let them meet some of the team, show them what we're working on, maybe have lunch, - Have a more low-key meeting in a cafe or pub. In both cases it's about getting to know them better and giving them the opportunity to figure out whether they're really interested in the role: i.e., not a traditional interview. If they are interested, then we go straight to a technical interview. The above is important because it's a key route for more senior hires. As a result, certainly at the beginning of the process, it's very much tailored to the candidate at an individual level.

briandear 9y ago
How about reading their resume and cover letter? Looking at a github link, checking out their LinkedIn. You know, actually do YOUR job rather than wasting every single applicants time. Maybe good engineers are self unselecting because your assembly line screening process turned them off. Look at the hiring process at Apple or Google for examples of how to do it well. Apply; respond to applications with a request for a phone screen or a rejection letter. Do the phone screen. Those that pass, do a technical interview via FaceTime, then those that pass that, send them to the final round. If you reject anyone during the process, notify them immediately. Be respectful to the candidates and you will end up with better hires. Don’t treat them like you are doing them a favor: you aren’t.
- meesterdude 9y ago
  > Apply; respond to applications with a request for a phone screen or a rejection letter. Do the phone screen. Those that pass, do a technical interview via FaceTime, then those that pass that, send them to the final round. If you reject anyone during the process, notify them immediately. nailed it. is that really so much to ask?
  - bartread 9y ago
    You may not have read what I wrote properly: that is exactly what I do at the moment. (We get vastly fewer applicants.) Thing is, that doesn't scale too well. And when you reach the point when it doesn't, you need to do something else - particularly when you have a day job to do on top of recruitment.
- bartread 9y ago
  > You know, actually do YOUR job rather than wasting every single applicants time. I'm not wasting anyone's time. Nobody has to do anything - you can just ignore the invitation and that's fine. I'm certainly not wasting anyone's time any more than they're wasting my time submitting a subpar application for a job they're not really that interested in. Maybe you were having a bad day but, in case not, let me say: nobody owes you a living. Like it or not, you need to earn it.

megy 9y ago

Me too, but I guess it would be different if I didn't have a job/hadn't had one before.

amorphid 9y ago

I also kind of agree. If I do something for you, it's nice if you do something for me. So if I put work in to thoughtfully apply, I'm kind of expecting you to do more work than flinging a coding exercise at me. As a recruiter, I saw companies spam every candidate with a coding exercise only to never review many applications w/ completed exercises.

meesterdude 9y ago
> I saw companies spam every candidate with a coding exercise only to never review many applications w/ completed exercises. this is my experience - and why i don't do them out the gate. Because there's a strong chance my work won't even be seen or reviewed - and i have had this happen enough times to know that i should just say no.
bartread 9y ago
> As a recruiter, I saw companies spam every candidate with a coding exercise only to never review many applications w/ completed exercises. I'm really sorry you had that experience. For what it's worth I've sat on the other side of the fence: spent a couple of hours working on something only to hear nothing in response. It sucks. I hope I made it clear above, but my very strong recommendation is that if somebody has sent in a solution to a coding assessment, then you should be taking the time to give them personalised feedback rather than some stock response. If that didn't come across then I apologise.