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Do you want to make a case that health and safety have gone down since we adopted our current “economic system”? If so, when was this? AFAIK, health and safety

Do you want to make a case that health and safety have gone down since we adopted our current “economic system”? If so, when was this? AFAIK, health and safety have been trending positively in a significant way for well over a century, with nation-state conflict causing the most significant regressions, not profit-motivated corporations.

jadedhacker 9y ago
Health and safety typically increase in response to workers advocating for additional health and safety. Those increases were won in spite of the system not because of it. Noam Chomsky makes the following point: Slave societies also exhibited improvements over time. It wasn't an argument for slavery.
- twoodfin 9y ago
  Sure, but comparing the virtual slave state of North Korea with the prosperity of South Korea is a pretty good argument for freedom and against slavery. Do you have some examples of societies that radically increased their overall health and safety without adopting liberal economic policies? Cuba, maybe?
  - jadedhacker 9y ago
    This is a very reasonable question, but I think this is too off topic from this article to comply with HN's guidelines as it verges on more general questions. The latest issue of Jacobin does compare the Cuban health system to the US health system and to the Dominican Republic if you're interested, but it's print/subscriber only. SK and NK are too complex to be analyzed under these textual constraints.
manicdee 9y ago
Thalidomide, asbestos, DDT, commercial fishing, logging, industrial agriculture’s dependence on phosphate, western nations entirely addicted to oil … there are plenty of examples. The overall positive trend is slowing down, with life expectancy in the USA dropping, mostly due to the opioid epidemic. Overall the picture is pretty grim. Long term stability of civilisation is under threat due to fertility rates not falling fast enough to offset longevity. Food production is consuming limited non-renewable resources.

jadedhacker 9y ago

Health and safety typically increase in response to workers advocating for additional health and safety. Those increases were won in spite of the system not because of it. Noam Chomsky makes the following point: Slave societies also exhibited improvements over time. It wasn't an argument for slavery.

twoodfin 9y ago
Sure, but comparing the virtual slave state of North Korea with the prosperity of South Korea is a pretty good argument for freedom and against slavery. Do you have some examples of societies that radically increased their overall health and safety without adopting liberal economic policies? Cuba, maybe?
- jadedhacker 9y ago
  This is a very reasonable question, but I think this is too off topic from this article to comply with HN's guidelines as it verges on more general questions. The latest issue of Jacobin does compare the Cuban health system to the US health system and to the Dominican Republic if you're interested, but it's print/subscriber only. SK and NK are too complex to be analyzed under these textual constraints.

manicdee 9y ago

Thalidomide, asbestos, DDT, commercial fishing, logging, industrial agriculture’s dependence on phosphate, western nations entirely addicted to oil … there are plenty of examples. The overall positive trend is slowing down, with life expectancy in the USA dropping, mostly due to the opioid epidemic. Overall the picture is pretty grim. Long term stability of civilisation is under threat due to fertility rates not falling fast enough to offset longevity. Food production is consuming limited non-renewable resources.