7 ms·

> "She was wearing a miniskirt in a sketchy part of town" is never an excuse! More like: she left all her bright-red sports car car doors open with the windows

by orf 9y ago

> "She was wearing a miniskirt in a sketchy part of town" is never an excuse! More like: she left all her bright-red sports car car doors open with the windows rolled down, parked unattended in a sketchy part of town

bigiain 9y ago
Even then - it was the thief who stole it who was "to blame". I've walked past plenty of open doors, topless convertibles, unattended bicycles - without being compelled to steal anything. To push the analogy too far - building a robot to check every parked car to see if it's unlocked and stealing the ones that are - is not OK, even though they were unlocked.
- orf 9y ago
  You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who's immediate reaction to that story is not "what the hell did you expect was going to happen, that's on you", regardless of where the blame philosophically lies. Thievery happens, it's happened since the dawn of time and will happen up until the end. To not be aware of this is your fault. In my opinion arguing otherwise is like arguing the sea is to blame for destroying your house, when you built it unprotected on a beach.
  - bigiain 9y ago
    Sure - and I won't argue about whether it counts as "contributory negligence" if you park your nice car unlocked in sketchy areas and it gets stolen (and I'm sure you'll be hearing that from your insurance company if it's you). But if your sister/girlfriend/wife/mother is assaulted in the street and I said to you "what the hell did you expect was going to happen, that's on you" - I'd fully expect you to punch me in the face. (And yes, I realise the hypocrisy in that - welcome to the inconsistency of being a human being...)
- kolpa 9y ago
  Many a gravestone bears the epitaph "but I was right." Of course criminals are wrong, to blame, and should be punished. Still, people are responsible for securing their own safety for as long as criminals exist.
  - bigiain 9y ago
    Agreed - part of that is locking your car. But at least as big a part is paying your taxes, contributing to society, requiring your political representatives to write appropriate and sensible laws, ensuring the police are funded and trained to catch people who break them, ensuring the courts are capable and willing to punish them. "Securing safety" should be mostly a collective thing, not an individual thing. Society as a whole has a lot better opportunity to deter crime in the first place and to reduce the incidences overall - than most individuals do. [edit]Oh, and not stealing other people's shit yourself, or giving a pass to your friends or family who do.

by orf 9y ago

bigiain 9y ago

Even then - it was the thief who stole it who was "to blame". I've walked past plenty of open doors, topless convertibles, unattended bicycles - without being compelled to steal anything. To push the analogy too far - building a robot to check every parked car to see if it's unlocked and stealing the ones that are - is not OK, even though they were unlocked.

orf 9y ago
You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who's immediate reaction to that story is not "what the hell did you expect was going to happen, that's on you", regardless of where the blame philosophically lies. Thievery happens, it's happened since the dawn of time and will happen up until the end. To not be aware of this is your fault. In my opinion arguing otherwise is like arguing the sea is to blame for destroying your house, when you built it unprotected on a beach.
- bigiain 9y ago
  Sure - and I won't argue about whether it counts as "contributory negligence" if you park your nice car unlocked in sketchy areas and it gets stolen (and I'm sure you'll be hearing that from your insurance company if it's you). But if your sister/girlfriend/wife/mother is assaulted in the street and I said to you "what the hell did you expect was going to happen, that's on you" - I'd fully expect you to punch me in the face. (And yes, I realise the hypocrisy in that - welcome to the inconsistency of being a human being...)
kolpa 9y ago
Many a gravestone bears the epitaph "but I was right." Of course criminals are wrong, to blame, and should be punished. Still, people are responsible for securing their own safety for as long as criminals exist.
- bigiain 9y ago
  Agreed - part of that is locking your car. But at least as big a part is paying your taxes, contributing to society, requiring your political representatives to write appropriate and sensible laws, ensuring the police are funded and trained to catch people who break them, ensuring the courts are capable and willing to punish them. "Securing safety" should be mostly a collective thing, not an individual thing. Society as a whole has a lot better opportunity to deter crime in the first place and to reduce the incidences overall - than most individuals do. [edit]Oh, and not stealing other people's shit yourself, or giving a pass to your friends or family who do.