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> This seems like a bad idea to me, especially in the context of a discussion about how to reduce the political/social influence of Google. It seems to me tha

> This seems like a bad idea to me, especially in the context of a discussion about how to reduce the political/social influence of Google. It seems to me that there's an enormous contingent of people who wants to yell about the influence of Google and Facebook and then yell even louder about how they're not actively intervening to skew content towards their political preferences (ie increase their influence massively). This split-personality approach is baffling to me.

komali2 9y ago
Irrelevant to the content itself, but I have noticed a tendency in myself to treat the media and the internet as a homogeneous entity. So I might see a bunch of articles and comments about how people want to punish Hollywood for sex abuse, and a bunch more about how a given politician isn't actually guilty, and I think in my brain "well which is it!!" But then if I start paying attention to the papers themselves and the history of commentors, I'm noticing that it's not the same people calling for both. I started doing this after alt right trolls started saying things like "I thought you liberals LOVE new taxes?" and realized it was happening to me. I'm getting a sense of that from your post.
- wutbrodo 9y ago
  No, I'm definitely aware of that phenomenon and definitely check for it before I say things like this. I'm thinking of specific individual people I know, whether in real life or consistent pseudonyms on communities I have exposure to. It happens often enough in that small, detailed dataset that I'm comfortable extrapolating a little bit to the larger dataset instead of assuming that it's different subgroups with contradictory viewpoints. I come across thoughtful people all the time who have a baseline assumption of intelligence and intellectual honesty that doesn't match almost any group you're likely to actually come across. My prior for people having obviously contradictory views is simply higher than yours.
frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
>It seems to me that there's an enormous contingent of people who wants to yell about the influence of Google and Facebook and then yell even louder about how they're not actively intervening to skew content towards their political preferences (ie increase their influence massively). This split-personality approach is baffling to me. It's pretty straightforward to understand the view. 1. It would be better if Google and Facebook didn't even have the power to skew content. 2. Since they do have that power and seem determined to use it they should be judged on their choice to use (or not use in this case) and implementation of content skewing.
btilly 9y ago
That can happen even if everyone involved is individually logical and rational. See the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_paradox for more. It happens even more easily if you're lumping people into a single group, but the individuals that you see speaking out about one topic are different than the individuals that you see speaking out about another. The upshot is that from your described experience you cannot conclude that any group is being self-contradictory unless you personally witness the same person contradicting themselves in different discussions.
- komali2 9y ago
  Oh wow, nice, I never knew this was a named phenomena!
- wutbrodo 9y ago
  I'm not speaking of groups holding collectively contradictory views, I'm speaking of the group consisting of individuals who hold individually contradictory views. I know many people personally who hold the views described above.

komali2 9y ago

Irrelevant to the content itself, but I have noticed a tendency in myself to treat the media and the internet as a homogeneous entity. So I might see a bunch of articles and comments about how people want to punish Hollywood for sex abuse, and a bunch more about how a given politician isn't actually guilty, and I think in my brain "well which is it!!" But then if I start paying attention to the papers themselves and the history of commentors, I'm noticing that it's not the same people calling for both. I started doing this after alt right trolls started saying things like "I thought you liberals LOVE new taxes?" and realized it was happening to me. I'm getting a sense of that from your post.

wutbrodo 9y ago
No, I'm definitely aware of that phenomenon and definitely check for it before I say things like this. I'm thinking of specific individual people I know, whether in real life or consistent pseudonyms on communities I have exposure to. It happens often enough in that small, detailed dataset that I'm comfortable extrapolating a little bit to the larger dataset instead of assuming that it's different subgroups with contradictory viewpoints. I come across thoughtful people all the time who have a baseline assumption of intelligence and intellectual honesty that doesn't match almost any group you're likely to actually come across. My prior for people having obviously contradictory views is simply higher than yours.

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago

>It seems to me that there's an enormous contingent of people who wants to yell about the influence of Google and Facebook and then yell even louder about how they're not actively intervening to skew content towards their political preferences (ie increase their influence massively). This split-personality approach is baffling to me. It's pretty straightforward to understand the view. 1. It would be better if Google and Facebook didn't even have the power to skew content. 2. Since they do have that power and seem determined to use it they should be judged on their choice to use (or not use in this case) and implementation of content skewing.

btilly 9y ago

That can happen even if everyone involved is individually logical and rational. See the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_paradox for more. It happens even more easily if you're lumping people into a single group, but the individuals that you see speaking out about one topic are different than the individuals that you see speaking out about another. The upshot is that from your described experience you cannot conclude that any group is being self-contradictory unless you personally witness the same person contradicting themselves in different discussions.

komali2 9y ago
Oh wow, nice, I never knew this was a named phenomena!
wutbrodo 9y ago
I'm not speaking of groups holding collectively contradictory views, I'm speaking of the group consisting of individuals who hold individually contradictory views. I know many people personally who hold the views described above.