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>But I have a degree in philosophy and was trained in my formative years to argue with folks. Interestingly, the way we often teach debate is: Someone can argu

>But I have a degree in philosophy and was trained in my formative years to argue with folks. Interestingly, the way we often teach debate is: Someone can argue either side of an issue, and be judged on the approach, successful influence or tactics used, with insufficient weight on the merits of the position. I suspect this helps promote the climate that is reflected in your followup statement: >I can't really get out of the mode of arguing - I'm constantly encountering people I love casually sharing memes that say that "people like me" are the root cause of all societal problems - I'm constantly reading between a bunch of lines and seeing where folks I love are in fact doing terrible things for their families and relationships.

scarecrowbob 9y ago
To a great extent, I see people formally arguing well (or, at the very least, trying to signal that they are arguing well) but so many argue for absurd propositions and hellish conclusions. Much of my thought over the last couple of years centers on how much of our rationalist skills are honed around developing resistance strategies. I believe that we have far more and better mental tools at our disposal for telling us that we are being rational than we actually have tools for being rational. Maybe that is, in itself an irrational belief. It's kind of difficult to justify, but it feels correct, so I kneel doan and act as if I believe it, especially with regards to my own thought patterns. At the very least, however, logic and rationality only operate well if we have a common set of quality premises. So even with a good education in rhetoric we often can't get out of our heads enough to look for truth instead of seek the gratification of justifying ourselves. Heck, my MA concentrates on rhetoric and community, and I have a hard time simply being okay when I generally agree with folks who are saying nutty things because of their poor logical skills. And so I can't really be around an environment that foments that kind of casual bad thought.
- stfwn 9y ago
  It may be helpful or even liberating for you to read outside your field a bit, in linguistic anthropology on the topic of language ideologies. For me, I have realized people are often not simply ‘unskilled’, but instead just do not follow the script of your specific language ideology. They might be saying interesting or smart stuff if you know how to interpret it.

scarecrowbob 9y ago

To a great extent, I see people formally arguing well (or, at the very least, trying to signal that they are arguing well) but so many argue for absurd propositions and hellish conclusions. Much of my thought over the last couple of years centers on how much of our rationalist skills are honed around developing resistance strategies. I believe that we have far more and better mental tools at our disposal for telling us that we are being rational than we actually have tools for being rational. Maybe that is, in itself an irrational belief. It's kind of difficult to justify, but it feels correct, so I kneel doan and act as if I believe it, especially with regards to my own thought patterns. At the very least, however, logic and rationality only operate well if we have a common set of quality premises. So even with a good education in rhetoric we often can't get out of our heads enough to look for truth instead of seek the gratification of justifying ourselves. Heck, my MA concentrates on rhetoric and community, and I have a hard time simply being okay when I generally agree with folks who are saying nutty things because of their poor logical skills. And so I can't really be around an environment that foments that kind of casual bad thought.

stfwn 9y ago
It may be helpful or even liberating for you to read outside your field a bit, in linguistic anthropology on the topic of language ideologies. For me, I have realized people are often not simply ‘unskilled’, but instead just do not follow the script of your specific language ideology. They might be saying interesting or smart stuff if you know how to interpret it.