5 ms·

What about those that don’t want statehood, like Puerto Rico? I think we should offer automatic citizenship and cheap transportation for all citizens of US ter

What about those that don’t want statehood, like Puerto Rico? I think we should offer automatic citizenship and cheap transportation for all citizens of US territories to the mainland, though.

banned1 9y ago
"I think we should offer ... cheap transportation" How many tickets do you want to purchase? I am collecting donations. Unless you are just talking...
- kolpa 9y ago
  Uncle Sam does a fine job collecting donations.
  - tartuffe78 9y ago
    Taxes aren't donated, they're collected.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> What about those that don’t want statehood, like Puerto Rico? Statehood won the last two status referenda in Puerto Rico.
- tptacek 9y ago
  The last time with just 25% turnout --- lower than the Illinois midterms --- in part due to a boycott of the referendum by anti-statehood groups. The preceding 3 referendums voted against statehood.
  - bobthepanda 9y ago
    And the political landscape has probably changed post-Maria. Not being a state has really hampered PR's efforts to get aid.
    - tptacek 9y ago
      Maybe? Probably? We don't know. Becoming a state is a big deal.
    - slededit 9y ago
      Showing them how little the rest of the country cares about them isn't a great way to encourage them to get more deeply involved.
  - xboxnolifes 9y ago
    If so many people didn't want statehood, they probably should have voted in the referendum...
    - tptacek 9y ago
      It's a non-binding referendum, and Puerto Ricans have been debating the wording of these polls for over a decade. Neither side can pretend that there's a clear public will in either direction --- especially since public support for statehood sometimes carries some unrealistic predicates (continued support for a Spanish official language and the continuation of the PR legal system, which is something like half-ours and half-theirs). I'm a Democrat and would like to see PR a state, but it's not honest to pretend that this is a cut-and-dried decision. There are benefits to the limbo PR is in right now: US citizenship without income tax and much more control over the operation of their territory than they'd have as a state.
- jcranmer 9y ago
  There are three camps: statehood, independence, and status quo. Over time, statehood has captured more and more of the vote, and probably constitutes a plurality of the vote at this time (maybe a majority, I don't know), followed somewhat closely by status quo and very distantly by independence. The operative word is probably: the most recent referendums were designed to provoke the statehood option, leading to the results being ignored as not providing a clear mandate. Constant relitigation of the issue over the past decade doesn't help with apathy. It doesn't help that status quo may not be a realistic option: there's a lot of unclear legal issues with little appetite to litigate them. I suspect that Puerto Rico will eventually become a state, but it's politically difficult for that to happen without a clear mandate, and there doesn't seem to be much appetite for providing a truly fair and clear referendum in this matter.
  - s2g 9y ago
    Getting screwed during the last hurricane will hopefully push more people towards statehood. Lot harder to ignore them when they have 2 senators and a rep to raise hell.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      It'll push more people to decolonialization, I'm sure, but where statehood or independence gets the boost is unclear. It won't matter as long as Congress isn't interested in decolonialization.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > The operative word is probably: the most recent referendums were designed to provoke the statehood option The most recent referendum was held only because the federal government preferred another referendum to honoring the statehood win in the prior referendum, which had 78.19% turnout, and a two-question format where a clear majority chose not to continue territorial status and a clear majority chose statehood as the new status. > I suspect that Puerto Rico will eventually become a state, but it's politically difficult for that to happen without a clear mandate There was a clear mandate after the 2012 status referendum. It is difficult when a majority of Congress doesn't want it to happen for reasons for mostly partisan political reasons, and will seize on any excuse to ignore thr clear desire to end the colonial relation.
waterphone 9y ago
Puerto Rico voted overwhelmingly for statehood in 2017, with 97.18% of those voting choosing statehood.
- YaxelPerez 9y ago
  People opposed to statehood boycotted the referendum, leading to a 23% voter turnout rate (one that usually hovers around 80%). That figure isn't really representative of the will of the Puerto Rican people.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    And really, how could it be? In real votes you can't get 97.18% of voters to agree that water is wet.
    - s-phi-nl 9y ago
      Point taken, although there, of course, is at least one exception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum,_2013 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_r...

What about those that don’t want statehood, like Puerto Rico? I think we should offer automatic citizenship and cheap transportation for all citizens of US territories to the mainland, though.

banned1 9y ago

"I think we should offer ... cheap transportation" How many tickets do you want to purchase? I am collecting donations. Unless you are just talking...

kolpa 9y ago
Uncle Sam does a fine job collecting donations.
- tartuffe78 9y ago
  Taxes aren't donated, they're collected.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> What about those that don’t want statehood, like Puerto Rico? Statehood won the last two status referenda in Puerto Rico.

tptacek 9y ago
The last time with just 25% turnout --- lower than the Illinois midterms --- in part due to a boycott of the referendum by anti-statehood groups. The preceding 3 referendums voted against statehood.
- bobthepanda 9y ago
  And the political landscape has probably changed post-Maria. Not being a state has really hampered PR's efforts to get aid.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    Maybe? Probably? We don't know. Becoming a state is a big deal.
  - slededit 9y ago
    Showing them how little the rest of the country cares about them isn't a great way to encourage them to get more deeply involved.
- xboxnolifes 9y ago
  If so many people didn't want statehood, they probably should have voted in the referendum...
  - tptacek 9y ago
    It's a non-binding referendum, and Puerto Ricans have been debating the wording of these polls for over a decade. Neither side can pretend that there's a clear public will in either direction --- especially since public support for statehood sometimes carries some unrealistic predicates (continued support for a Spanish official language and the continuation of the PR legal system, which is something like half-ours and half-theirs). I'm a Democrat and would like to see PR a state, but it's not honest to pretend that this is a cut-and-dried decision. There are benefits to the limbo PR is in right now: US citizenship without income tax and much more control over the operation of their territory than they'd have as a state.
jcranmer 9y ago
There are three camps: statehood, independence, and status quo. Over time, statehood has captured more and more of the vote, and probably constitutes a plurality of the vote at this time (maybe a majority, I don't know), followed somewhat closely by status quo and very distantly by independence. The operative word is probably: the most recent referendums were designed to provoke the statehood option, leading to the results being ignored as not providing a clear mandate. Constant relitigation of the issue over the past decade doesn't help with apathy. It doesn't help that status quo may not be a realistic option: there's a lot of unclear legal issues with little appetite to litigate them. I suspect that Puerto Rico will eventually become a state, but it's politically difficult for that to happen without a clear mandate, and there doesn't seem to be much appetite for providing a truly fair and clear referendum in this matter.
- s2g 9y ago
  Getting screwed during the last hurricane will hopefully push more people towards statehood. Lot harder to ignore them when they have 2 senators and a rep to raise hell.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    It'll push more people to decolonialization, I'm sure, but where statehood or independence gets the boost is unclear. It won't matter as long as Congress isn't interested in decolonialization.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > The operative word is probably: the most recent referendums were designed to provoke the statehood option The most recent referendum was held only because the federal government preferred another referendum to honoring the statehood win in the prior referendum, which had 78.19% turnout, and a two-question format where a clear majority chose not to continue territorial status and a clear majority chose statehood as the new status. > I suspect that Puerto Rico will eventually become a state, but it's politically difficult for that to happen without a clear mandate There was a clear mandate after the 2012 status referendum. It is difficult when a majority of Congress doesn't want it to happen for reasons for mostly partisan political reasons, and will seize on any excuse to ignore thr clear desire to end the colonial relation.

waterphone 9y ago

Puerto Rico voted overwhelmingly for statehood in 2017, with 97.18% of those voting choosing statehood.

YaxelPerez 9y ago
People opposed to statehood boycotted the referendum, leading to a 23% voter turnout rate (one that usually hovers around 80%). That figure isn't really representative of the will of the Puerto Rican people.
- tptacek 9y ago
  And really, how could it be? In real votes you can't get 97.18% of voters to agree that water is wet.
  - s-phi-nl 9y ago
    Point taken, although there, of course, is at least one exception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum,_2013 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_r...