3 ms·

In my ignorance I thought birth in any us territories conferred citizenship.

by your-nanny 9y ago

jcranmer 9y ago
The US has a concept of incorporated territories versus unincorporated territories, with the difference being whether or not the constitution is meant to fully apply (It's effectively a legalistic distinction between "state-to-be" and "colony"). The only remaining incorporated territory is the uninhabited Palmyra Atoll (created by removing it from Hawaii when Hawaii became a state). Since unincorporated territories are not meant to be thought of as the United States proper, provisions like birthright citizenship don't apply. I don't think all of the relevant claims have been litigated before the Supreme Court. Since the Insular Cases in the early 20th century, the Supreme Court has slowly walked back some of the distinctions. In addition, Congress has expressly granted many rights (such as citizenship, not mere nationality) to Puerto Rico, which is the substantial portion of the territories.
- kolpa 9y ago
  I mean the Declaration of Independence was pretty clearly a strong statement against the whole concept of "unincorporated territories", but what's obligatory on the goose isn't always accepted by the gander.
  - jcranmer 9y ago
    SCOTUS has more or less ruled that the Bill of Rights applies to unincorporated territories (and even extraterritorial jurisdiction, as Bush Jr. found out). One complication is that, as the Declaration of Independence forcefully points out, the fundamental issue is the right of people to alter their government if they view it as destructive to inalienable, natural rights--and most of the people in these territories actually like the status quo political situation (cf. the several Puerto Rico status referendums which generally all signify a plurality preference for status quo, even if the legal viability of the status quo is questionable).

3 ms·

In my ignorance I thought birth in any us territories conferred citizenship.

by your-nanny 9y ago

In my ignorance I thought birth in any us territories conferred citizenship.

jcranmer 9y ago
The US has a concept of incorporated territories versus unincorporated territories, with the difference being whether or not the constitution is meant to fully apply (It's effectively a legalistic distinction between "state-to-be" and "colony"). The only remaining incorporated territory is the uninhabited Palmyra Atoll (created by removing it from Hawaii when Hawaii became a state). Since unincorporated territories are not meant to be thought of as the United States proper, provisions like birthright citizenship don't apply. I don't think all of the relevant claims have been litigated before the Supreme Court. Since the Insular Cases in the early 20th century, the Supreme Court has slowly walked back some of the distinctions. In addition, Congress has expressly granted many rights (such as citizenship, not mere nationality) to Puerto Rico, which is the substantial portion of the territories.
- kolpa 9y ago
  I mean the Declaration of Independence was pretty clearly a strong statement against the whole concept of "unincorporated territories", but what's obligatory on the goose isn't always accepted by the gander.
  - jcranmer 9y ago
    SCOTUS has more or less ruled that the Bill of Rights applies to unincorporated territories (and even extraterritorial jurisdiction, as Bush Jr. found out). One complication is that, as the Declaration of Independence forcefully points out, the fundamental issue is the right of people to alter their government if they view it as destructive to inalienable, natural rights--and most of the people in these territories actually like the status quo political situation (cf. the several Puerto Rico status referendums which generally all signify a plurality preference for status quo, even if the legal viability of the status quo is questionable).