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I don't know how their blog is hosted but wordpress in general is very chatty with the database backend, and I really don't think the site getting crushed by HN

I don't know how their blog is hosted but wordpress in general is very chatty with the database backend, and I really don't think the site getting crushed by HN is indicative of fundamental issues with container technology. If it is then there is a long list of technologies that HN has exposed fundamental issues with by crushing their content sites :).

peterwwillis 9y ago
Oh I'm not pointing at container technology. I'm talking web backend technology in general. I mean this is 2018. No well known company's blog on AWS should ever go down at all, unless the AWS service in the region is down. The fact that it's down is not a Docker failure or a Wordpress failure or a Database failure, as there are widely known methods to scale all these things. The problem is that putting the puzzle together is just complicated enough that it's easy to get wrong. If even Docker's blog can't scale, we have bigger issues as an industry.
- markbnj 9y ago
  Fair enough. I took "this technology" to be a reference to Docker given the context.
- andrewstuart2 9y ago
  If Docker's blog was their core product, I would probably be more likely to agree. The truth is, they don't get ROI from engineering their blog to anticipate or quickly respond to all the traffic of a major announcement, because those are few and far between. The level of complexity is moot because the benefits will only outweigh a very small cost. They build container tech. That doesn't mean they will benefit from engineering the best solution for everything they do.
  - peterwwillis 9y ago
    I'm not arguing with that, I'm saying it's dumb that we still have to work hard to get a blog to scale.
- jabv 9y ago
  I'm sorry, is your argument based on the current year? I presume you mean otherwise, but that's how it's written.
  - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
    Yes, and it's a perfectly fair argument. Content hosting sites are supposed to host content. That's what they do. If a site doesn't work under unusual but not outrageous conditions, it's fundamentally broken and not fit for purpose. The industry should be much less tolerant of excuses for tools and systems that perform poorly under load. It's had a couple of decades to get this right now. How is it acceptable that this is even a problem?
- seanp2k2 9y ago
  Static site generators are an infinitely better choice for making actual blogs. Wordpress has evolved into a CMS similar to Drupal or Joomla with all the available plugins. You can make it into a store or a wiki or basically anything, but you probably shouldn’t. Wordpress was really cool back in the PHP5 days, but Moveable Type and other “old school” static CMS generators always scaled better. Today with node and the dozens of good SSGs, there’s really no excuse to use WP for a blog. The content doesn’t change between page loads, so why would you server-side generate the page dynamically on each page load? The way that it works is fundamentally wrong, and while it’s not very hard to fix with Varnish or WPSuperCache...why not start with the right tool for the job?
  - zenlikethat 9y ago
    Try getting 5+ marketing people to learn git and GitHub sometime and let me know how it goes.
    - skellera 9y ago
      For just the blogging portion, you can just add the blog posts directly through github (the markdown files for posts). https://help.github.com/articles/creating-new-files/ https://help.github.com/articles/creating-new-files/ But yeah, it’s less user friendly. I’m sure someone will make a good solution for this soon.
      - fenwick67 9y ago
        There are some web services that will run a static site system for you like https://www.netlifycms.org/ https://www.netlifycms.org/ or https://www.datocms.com/ https://www.datocms.com/ .
      - csmiller 9y ago
        Gatsby + Netlify + Netlify CMS is super.
    - OtterCoder 9y ago
      Git is not for deployment. Also, hardcoding blog posts in the repo is a dumb solution, and not necessary for a static site. The user built markup should be separate from the code that generates static pages from it.
thinkloop 9y ago
There is a slight irony in them being an infrastructure company.
BjoernKW 9y ago
WordPress works very well with high loads if you use proper caching (via WP Super Cache, for instance) so the database doesn’t get hit for every page hit. You don’t need containers or in fact anything fancy for that. With WordPress in particular containers make some maintenance and scalability issues more difficult to deal with.

peterwwillis 9y ago

Oh I'm not pointing at container technology. I'm talking web backend technology in general. I mean this is 2018. No well known company's blog on AWS should ever go down at all, unless the AWS service in the region is down. The fact that it's down is not a Docker failure or a Wordpress failure or a Database failure, as there are widely known methods to scale all these things. The problem is that putting the puzzle together is just complicated enough that it's easy to get wrong. If even Docker's blog can't scale, we have bigger issues as an industry.

markbnj 9y ago
Fair enough. I took "this technology" to be a reference to Docker given the context.
andrewstuart2 9y ago
If Docker's blog was their core product, I would probably be more likely to agree. The truth is, they don't get ROI from engineering their blog to anticipate or quickly respond to all the traffic of a major announcement, because those are few and far between. The level of complexity is moot because the benefits will only outweigh a very small cost. They build container tech. That doesn't mean they will benefit from engineering the best solution for everything they do.
- peterwwillis 9y ago
  I'm not arguing with that, I'm saying it's dumb that we still have to work hard to get a blog to scale.
jabv 9y ago
I'm sorry, is your argument based on the current year? I presume you mean otherwise, but that's how it's written.
- TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
  Yes, and it's a perfectly fair argument. Content hosting sites are supposed to host content. That's what they do. If a site doesn't work under unusual but not outrageous conditions, it's fundamentally broken and not fit for purpose. The industry should be much less tolerant of excuses for tools and systems that perform poorly under load. It's had a couple of decades to get this right now. How is it acceptable that this is even a problem?
seanp2k2 9y ago
Static site generators are an infinitely better choice for making actual blogs. Wordpress has evolved into a CMS similar to Drupal or Joomla with all the available plugins. You can make it into a store or a wiki or basically anything, but you probably shouldn’t. Wordpress was really cool back in the PHP5 days, but Moveable Type and other “old school” static CMS generators always scaled better. Today with node and the dozens of good SSGs, there’s really no excuse to use WP for a blog. The content doesn’t change between page loads, so why would you server-side generate the page dynamically on each page load? The way that it works is fundamentally wrong, and while it’s not very hard to fix with Varnish or WPSuperCache...why not start with the right tool for the job?
- zenlikethat 9y ago
  Try getting 5+ marketing people to learn git and GitHub sometime and let me know how it goes.
  - skellera 9y ago
    For just the blogging portion, you can just add the blog posts directly through github (the markdown files for posts). https://help.github.com/articles/creating-new-files/ https://help.github.com/articles/creating-new-files/ But yeah, it’s less user friendly. I’m sure someone will make a good solution for this soon.
    - fenwick67 9y ago
      There are some web services that will run a static site system for you like https://www.netlifycms.org/ https://www.netlifycms.org/ or https://www.datocms.com/ https://www.datocms.com/ .
    - csmiller 9y ago
      Gatsby + Netlify + Netlify CMS is super.
  - OtterCoder 9y ago
    Git is not for deployment. Also, hardcoding blog posts in the repo is a dumb solution, and not necessary for a static site. The user built markup should be separate from the code that generates static pages from it.

thinkloop 9y ago

There is a slight irony in them being an infrastructure company.

BjoernKW 9y ago

WordPress works very well with high loads if you use proper caching (via WP Super Cache, for instance) so the database doesn’t get hit for every page hit. You don’t need containers or in fact anything fancy for that. With WordPress in particular containers make some maintenance and scalability issues more difficult to deal with.