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U.S. nationals born in American Samoa sue for citizenship
- spraak 9y ago> The local American Samoan government has before taken a nuanced view over the issue, given concern about how aspects of Samoan life and culture “would be jeopardized if subjected to scrutiny under the 14th Amendment,” according to court documents filed in 2014 by lawyers representing the government I wonder why the government wouldn't want that, and what ways they think it would jeopardize the culture.
- norikki 9y ago> Land Ownership > About 90 percent of the land is communally owned by aiga. The existing tenure law on communal lands prohibits alienation of any real property except freehold land to any person whose blood is less that one-half Samoan. Unless the Governor approves the transfer in writing, it is unlawful for any matai of a Samoan family to alienate any family lands to any person or lease it for any term more than 55 years. ASG estimates that 1.5625 square miles of American Samoa's total area of 76.1 square miles are freehold land. https://www.doi.gov/oia/islands/american-samoa https://www.doi.gov/oia/islands/american-samoa You probably don't realize it, but projecting European values and customs onto other peoples is a form of white supremacy. There is nothing universal about the way European countries and their former colonies govern themselves. It is quite reasonable that many non-European people would want to be governed by principles incompatible with ours as Americans.
- throw_away 9y agoI was curious as well and I think I figured it out: https://books.google.com/books?id=e_tKDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=fa%27asamoa+14th+amendment&source=bl&ots=MiAI5AUD_D&sig=_89O3HcHT4jICb6am-0AM-DAYbU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwialJ7-vo_aAhVO6mMKHcrPCw8Q6AEIfTAH#v=onepage&q=fa'asamoa%2014th%20amendment&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=e_tKDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA87&lpg=P... American Samoa has laws that say that only American Samoans can own land or be a member of their local government. What the 14th Amendment may give them in terms of US citizenship, the 14th Amendment takes away with regard to these exclusionary laws.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> What the 14th Amendment may give them in terms of US citizenship, the 14th Amendment takes away with regard to these exclusionary laws. Except it doesn't. Even if the term “United States” in the first clause might be argued to include the whole territory of the nation called the “United States” and not just specifically the constituent states (which is the crux of the citizenship argument), that doesn't imply that the word “State” in the remainder of the Amendment means something other than the individual states of the Union. And all the restrictions are of the form “No State shall...”
- roywiggins 9y agoI know that Constitutional protections don't apply in their entirety in Puerto Rico, so I imagine there's ways in which it has been construed similarly in American Samoa. If it's not an incorporated territory (just an island the US happens to own), they are treated differently.
- jcranmer 9y agoPuerto Rico is, like American Samoa, an unincorporated territory. Well, the government doesn't consider it incorporated, although some legal scholars suggest that Congress did end up incorporating it at some point via accumulation of various acts (the argument has not, to my knowledge, been tried in court).
- kolpa 9y agoCongress might still "subject AS to scrutiny" and pass laws to bring AS in line with States' obligations.
- dragonwriter 9y agoCongress can do almost whatever it wants with any territory (subject to much less limits than apply to Congres action against states), but the 14th Amendment doesn't really have anything to do with that.
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- norikki 9y agoWell the Democratic party thinks all Mexicans should be offered US citizenship and be allowed to vote in American as well as Mexican elections, so giving Samoans citizenship should be a no brainer.
- bluetwo 9y agoStatehood for all territories.
- jonathanyc 9y agoWhat about those that don’t want statehood, like Puerto Rico? I think we should offer automatic citizenship and cheap transportation for all citizens of US territories to the mainland, though.
- banned1 9y ago"I think we should offer ... cheap transportation" How many tickets do you want to purchase? I am collecting donations. Unless you are just talking...
- kolpa 9y agoUncle Sam does a fine job collecting donations.
- tartuffe78 9y agoTaxes aren't donated, they're collected.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> What about those that don’t want statehood, like Puerto Rico? Statehood won the last two status referenda in Puerto Rico.
- tptacek 9y agoThe last time with just 25% turnout --- lower than the Illinois midterms --- in part due to a boycott of the referendum by anti-statehood groups. The preceding 3 referendums voted against statehood.
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- sykh 9y agoI was born in the Canal Zone when it was a U.S. territory. Both parents were American. By an act of Congress I am a natural born citizen. I’ve always been under the impression that it was well established that it is a power of the government to manage citizenship status for possessions/territories and whatnot. I’m surprised if there is any legal merit to the challenge. Though I do hope they win. I went to American schools in the Canal Zone. I don’t speak Spanish and I always thought of myself as American. When I came to the U.S. to live my expectations about America did not correspond to reality. As time goes on this chasm is increasing. I’ve been in the U.S. for 30 years now. Samoans may end up regretting if they win!
- UncleEntity 9y agoYep, can run for president too as was determined when John McCain ran even though he was born in the Canal Zone. And technically the Canal Zone was always part of Panama proper with the US leasing the land on a perpetual basis while US Samoa is "owned".
- shliachtx 9y agoJohn McCain also had American parents, so he was a natural-born citizen anyhow.
- lotsofpulp 9y agoI was looking up to see if that was true, and boy does it get complicated! https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-par...
- kolpa 9y agoThe basic case (John McCain's case) is simple: In general, a Child Born Outside the U.S. is a Citizen at Birth when the Child’s Parents Are Married to each other at the Time of Birth IF... Both parents are U.S. citizens at the time of birth, AND... At least one parent lived in the U.S. or its territories prior to the birth Canal Zone is a US territory. OP's case is interesting because the petitioner's parents are not citizens.
- pseingatl 9y ago@sykh: But a child of Panamanian citizens born in Gorgas Hospital was not be entitled to U.S. citizenship.And let's not forget that a child of a U.S. citizen father is treated differently from a child of a U.S. citizen mother. The Canal Zone was always half-in, half-out.
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- your-nanny 9y agoIn my ignorance I thought birth in any us territories conferred citizenship.
- jcranmer 9y agoThe US has a concept of incorporated territories versus unincorporated territories, with the difference being whether or not the constitution is meant to fully apply (It's effectively a legalistic distinction between "state-to-be" and "colony"). The only remaining incorporated territory is the uninhabited Palmyra Atoll (created by removing it from Hawaii when Hawaii became a state). Since unincorporated territories are not meant to be thought of as the United States proper, provisions like birthright citizenship don't apply. I don't think all of the relevant claims have been litigated before the Supreme Court. Since the Insular Cases in the early 20th century, the Supreme Court has slowly walked back some of the distinctions. In addition, Congress has expressly granted many rights (such as citizenship, not mere nationality) to Puerto Rico, which is the substantial portion of the territories.
- kolpa 9y agoI mean the Declaration of Independence was pretty clearly a strong statement against the whole concept of "unincorporated territories", but what's obligatory on the goose isn't always accepted by the gander.
- jcranmer 9y agoSCOTUS has more or less ruled that the Bill of Rights applies to unincorporated territories (and even extraterritorial jurisdiction, as Bush Jr. found out). One complication is that, as the Declaration of Independence forcefully points out, the fundamental issue is the right of people to alter their government if they view it as destructive to inalienable, natural rights--and most of the people in these territories actually like the status quo political situation (cf. the several Puerto Rico status referendums which generally all signify a plurality preference for status quo, even if the legal viability of the status quo is questionable).
- mi100hael 9y ago> Around elections, “I sit quietly at my cubicle, and don’t say a word" Now if only we could get citizens to follow suit.
- huy-nguyen 9y agoJohn Oliver segment on this: https://youtu.be/CesHr99ezWE https://youtu.be/CesHr99ezWE. The part about American Samoa starts at 7:30.
- dbsvsv 9y agoSad that Chinese mothers get bussed in in droves and the kid is a citizen. But not these people.
- whb07 9y agoThe concept of citizenship is all super squirrelly in the U.S as a whole. Take for example rich foreigners who fly in their pregnant wives to give birth at XYZ hospital, and immediately confer their children citizenship. How is that okay? Totally skip all laws and regulations by simply flying a couple weeks prior to the due date and voila! Screw everyone else waiting in line. source: know people who have done this for each of their four kids.
- googlryas 9y agoI agree - it is a loophole for the rich, as well as for Canadians, Mexicans, and Caribbean islanders who have easy access to America(as opposed to, say, Malagasys)
- vowelless 9y ago> Totally skip all laws What law are they breaking or skipping? This is perfectly legal (in fact, backed by the US Constitution) and IMHO one of the great aspects of the US (policy of jus soli). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli
- s2g 9y agoIt’s a shitty policy IMO. Shittier is the second class status for anyone not born in the US. Pretty disgusting.
- whb07 9y agoWell back in the 18th century, travel across continents was longer than 24 hours. They are not breaking any laws, but the entire point of immigration is null and void if more people did this. I’m actually pro free borders. But as it stands this is a weird way of abusing the current system.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- kapauldo 9y agoThose of you old enough may remember bill Clinton putting a " no taxation without representation" on the presidential limo when leaving office to protest lack of Congress people from puerto rico. The same applies to citizenship. This American apartheid is antiquated and all territories should be States and all inhabitants made citizens.
- 205guy 9y agoI would point out that this article focuses on Samoans who work in Utah, home of the Mormon Church. Sure enough, Mormons have an odd zeal to convert Samoans and bring them into their church [1]. So while the actions of individuals can be taken at face value, it's also worthwhile to point out what organizations and other influences may be behind this, and consider whether that aligns with the interests of all who come from and/or live in American Samoa. [1] https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1994/01/saving-samoans/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1994/01/saving-samoans/