4 ms·

So, if we set aside all of the ideology about how if anything involves the word government, then we all need to jump on some kind of bandwagon.. If we set all

by jbooth 16y ago

So, if we set aside all of the ideology about how if anything involves the word government, then we all need to jump on some kind of bandwagon.. If we set all of that aside, this looks like a decent idea, no? More engagement is what we need in this country. Ask not what your country can do for you and all of that.

hugh3 16y ago
More engagement of what in what? I'd like to see less engagement of the government in everything. Why is the US Federal Government offering me twelve thousand dollars to come up with recipes? I hate to sound like one of those Ron Paul folks, but when did acting as a middleman for the procurement of recipes become a duty of the US Federal Government?
- jbooth 16y ago
  If you hate to sound like one of those Ron Paul folks, don't say things like "I'd like to see less engagement of the government in everything". That doesn't make any sense. You're taking a whole bunch of big complicated problems, shrinking them to a single simplification that you can get your head around, and then prescribing one-size-fits-all solutions. That's never a good recipe. The Federal Government happens to be in a place where they can expend small money for big national gains in a number of places -- energy research in particular is one of those. Federally funded energy research just plain makes sense, especially when you compare it to all of the indirectly-federally-funded oil exploration that happens on a dollar for dollar basis. EDIT: For "what in what", I meant "people" in "solving the problems we have in this country".
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    One problem people have in this country: I'm hungry but too busy at work to cook. Some frenchies, mexicans and indians solved that for me [1]. Another problem: my stuff is in house A, but I want it in house B. Some Ukrainians solved that problem for me. I'm highly engaged in solving the problem of "you want to sell your stocks, but no one wants to buy them right now." While there are an unusually large number of people not doing this right now, it's mainly due to assorted frictions. Some of them don't know what problems need to be solved, or are not very good at solving the problems that currently need to be solved, or just live too far away to help. That's a problem, but it's really not clear how this site helps with it. It seems like a site such as monster.com would be more useful. [1] Temporarily, at least. My local city council is trying to shut them down.
    - jbooth 16y ago
      Yeah, so nobody's advocating that the government takes over commodity manufacturing, cooking, or for that matter farming. Meanwhile. Energy? And if you claim that the private sector's currently handling that without government help, I'm going to point and laugh for any definition of "handling", "that" and "government help".
      - yummyfajitas 16y ago
        I'm kind of confused. I simply pointed out that most people are already highly engaged in solving problems we have in this country, in response to your suggestion that engagement needs to be increased. So let me be more precise in my question. To what level should we increase our engagement in solving the problems of the country? Should we all engage ourselves 12 hours a day instead of 10, or give up weekends? Or should we simply devote ourselves to poster contests rather than to (for example) making pizza for others to consume?
        jbooth 16y ago
        You don't have to step up your engagement at all. But if people out there are interested in a particular topic, even if it's a small-fry topic, a website to encourage them to propose ideas and work together is an enabler -- it's asymmetric in that it can deliver value far in excess of the costs of making a relatively simple website. So it seems pretty worthwhile, especially considering the costs. This is the kind of thing that those of us who voted Obama were looking for.
yummyfajitas 16y ago
I won't get into a debate over the merits of JFK's catch phrase, "Ask not how the state can serve you, ask how you can serve the state." If having the population serve the state is the goal, why not actually help them serve the state in some significant way? All I was pointing out is that the vast majority of what you find on this site is irrelevant. It's nothing innovative, it's just advertisement for various departmental outreach projects. A poster contest on carbon monoxide safety? "Help Fight Environmental Crime Art Contest"? "A video contest promoting a healthy weight..."? If you actually want to crowdsource public problems, do it. I seriously doubt that will happen, since disruptive innovation might put some government workers out of work, but if you can do it, great. This site just isn't it, and isn't even in the ballpark. (I'll grant that a couple of good prizes are advertised there, as pointed out by poet. I clicked around a bit more, but didn't see any significant contests besides the green car/green plane contest he pointed out.)
- jbooth 16y ago
  You got JFK's quote wrong. If you're deliberately going to mischaracterize anyone to the left of Newt Gingrich, why even pretend to debate?
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    Oops, my mistake, I substituted one synonym ("state") for another ("country"). But how did I mischaracterize the quote? In what way is the meaning different. Regardless, you are ducking the main point to nitpick a small quotation error.
    - gjm11 16y ago
      > In what way is the meaning different? The "state" means not only the nation but the government. The "country" means, er, the country. JFK did not say, and plainly did not mean, "ask what you can do to help the government".
    - krschultz 16y ago
      Ask not what your neighbors can do for you, ask what you can do for your neighbors. Ask not what the building inspector can do for you, but what you can do for the building inspector. That is the differene between "country" and "state" on a local level.

by jbooth 16y ago

hugh3 16y ago

More engagement of what in what? I'd like to see less engagement of the government in everything. Why is the US Federal Government offering me twelve thousand dollars to come up with recipes? I hate to sound like one of those Ron Paul folks, but when did acting as a middleman for the procurement of recipes become a duty of the US Federal Government?

jbooth 16y ago
If you hate to sound like one of those Ron Paul folks, don't say things like "I'd like to see less engagement of the government in everything". That doesn't make any sense. You're taking a whole bunch of big complicated problems, shrinking them to a single simplification that you can get your head around, and then prescribing one-size-fits-all solutions. That's never a good recipe. The Federal Government happens to be in a place where they can expend small money for big national gains in a number of places -- energy research in particular is one of those. Federally funded energy research just plain makes sense, especially when you compare it to all of the indirectly-federally-funded oil exploration that happens on a dollar for dollar basis. EDIT: For "what in what", I meant "people" in "solving the problems we have in this country".
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  One problem people have in this country: I'm hungry but too busy at work to cook. Some frenchies, mexicans and indians solved that for me [1]. Another problem: my stuff is in house A, but I want it in house B. Some Ukrainians solved that problem for me. I'm highly engaged in solving the problem of "you want to sell your stocks, but no one wants to buy them right now." While there are an unusually large number of people not doing this right now, it's mainly due to assorted frictions. Some of them don't know what problems need to be solved, or are not very good at solving the problems that currently need to be solved, or just live too far away to help. That's a problem, but it's really not clear how this site helps with it. It seems like a site such as monster.com would be more useful. [1] Temporarily, at least. My local city council is trying to shut them down.
  - jbooth 16y ago
    Yeah, so nobody's advocating that the government takes over commodity manufacturing, cooking, or for that matter farming. Meanwhile. Energy? And if you claim that the private sector's currently handling that without government help, I'm going to point and laugh for any definition of "handling", "that" and "government help".
    - yummyfajitas 16y ago
      I'm kind of confused. I simply pointed out that most people are already highly engaged in solving problems we have in this country, in response to your suggestion that engagement needs to be increased. So let me be more precise in my question. To what level should we increase our engagement in solving the problems of the country? Should we all engage ourselves 12 hours a day instead of 10, or give up weekends? Or should we simply devote ourselves to poster contests rather than to (for example) making pizza for others to consume?
      - jbooth 16y ago
        You don't have to step up your engagement at all. But if people out there are interested in a particular topic, even if it's a small-fry topic, a website to encourage them to propose ideas and work together is an enabler -- it's asymmetric in that it can deliver value far in excess of the costs of making a relatively simple website. So it seems pretty worthwhile, especially considering the costs. This is the kind of thing that those of us who voted Obama were looking for.

yummyfajitas 16y ago

I won't get into a debate over the merits of JFK's catch phrase, "Ask not how the state can serve you, ask how you can serve the state." If having the population serve the state is the goal, why not actually help them serve the state in some significant way? All I was pointing out is that the vast majority of what you find on this site is irrelevant. It's nothing innovative, it's just advertisement for various departmental outreach projects. A poster contest on carbon monoxide safety? "Help Fight Environmental Crime Art Contest"? "A video contest promoting a healthy weight..."? If you actually want to crowdsource public problems, do it. I seriously doubt that will happen, since disruptive innovation might put some government workers out of work, but if you can do it, great. This site just isn't it, and isn't even in the ballpark. (I'll grant that a couple of good prizes are advertised there, as pointed out by poet. I clicked around a bit more, but didn't see any significant contests besides the green car/green plane contest he pointed out.)

jbooth 16y ago
You got JFK's quote wrong. If you're deliberately going to mischaracterize anyone to the left of Newt Gingrich, why even pretend to debate?
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Oops, my mistake, I substituted one synonym ("state") for another ("country"). But how did I mischaracterize the quote? In what way is the meaning different. Regardless, you are ducking the main point to nitpick a small quotation error.
  - gjm11 16y ago
    > In what way is the meaning different? The "state" means not only the nation but the government. The "country" means, er, the country. JFK did not say, and plainly did not mean, "ask what you can do to help the government".
  - krschultz 16y ago
    Ask not what your neighbors can do for you, ask what you can do for your neighbors. Ask not what the building inspector can do for you, but what you can do for the building inspector. That is the differene between "country" and "state" on a local level.