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I think what's being massively overlooked in many crashes that involved Tesla is the insane inferno caused by the impact on the batteries. I mean, the guy died

by debt 9y ago

I think what's being massively overlooked in many crashes that involved Tesla is the insane inferno caused by the impact on the batteries. I mean, the guy died from the burns from the inferno, not from the actual impact of the crash. The picture shows the front side of the car completely incinerated. Not to mention, the cleanup of the crash took much longer than it should've because of the EMS had serious concerns about the melted batteries. Tesla cars are great until you get trapped inside a battery-fueled inferno. Youtube it, those batteries literally create a meteoric fireball.

space_fountain 9y ago
I'm by no means sure of the relative danger, but plain old gas cars can also have pretty big fires. Is it actually worse with batteries? The energy density is if anything lower.
- sjwright 9y ago
  At least with liquid fuels, the job of a fireman can be as simple as extinguishing the existing flame and cooling down anything that is hot. It's not so simple to stop a damaged lithium battery from continuously self-igniting. Read about the recent incident with the Rimac Concept One—it kept catching fire for five days!
  - JshWright 9y ago
    > At least with liquid fuels, the job of a fireman can be as simple as extinguishing the existing flame and cooling down anything that is hot. As a firefighter, I think you and I likely have different ideas of what "simple" looks like in this case... EVs definitely pose unique hazards, but there is nothing "simple" about a car fire.
    - sjwright 9y ago
      That is fair. But I suspect your training and experience with car fires is substantial compared to EV fires. I suppose I didn't meant to say they are simple but rather well understood. I wonder when there are literally hundreds of unique popular models of EV on the road, whether there will be issues arising from having innumerable unique designs for battery packs, first responder lines etc.
      - JshWright 9y ago
        In many ways EV fires are easier (gas or gas vapors from a ruptured tank can flow quite a ways away from the vehicle, potentially unnoticed, before igniting; batteries don't tend to flow well...). It's just water, water, and more water... Tesla in particular is actually quite good about providing training materials for dealing with their vehicles, including facilitating the production of some excellent videos on hazards during extrication. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntK3rvVl2Qw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntK3rvVl2Qw As well as the standard safety manuals car manufacturers provide (though Tesla makes their especially easy to access). https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders
zaroth 9y ago
> ...the guy died from the burns from the inferno, not from the actual impact of the crash. Incorrect. “Witnesses were able to extract the driver before the flames posed any threat to him.“ Here is VIDEO of the Tesla immediately after the crash, taken by one of the guys who helped pull the driver out of the car: https://youtu.be/RlQTeF45aIE https://youtu.be/RlQTeF45aIE The battery is only just starting to ignite at this point after suffering catastrophic damage. (You can see individual cells torn apart). I would say this is significantly safer than a dozen gallons of gas which surely would have exploded in the same scenario. What IS true is that the aftermath is harder to cleanup because the damaged cells can pose a threat for reigniting.
- ExcelSaga 9y ago
  Gasoline under normal conditions doesn’t explode, it burns. I’m not denying that a fire was the likely outcome in either case, but neither gasoline nor batteries detonate, they deflagrate. Gasoline in particular, despite what Hollywood would have you believe, isn’t like nitroglycerin.
  - zaroth 9y ago
    Thanks for the correction!
  - sjwright 9y ago
    Actually I'd sooner blame video games, which often assert that a single bullet to the gas tank door will cause an instant car-flipping fireball.
    - colejohnson66 9y ago
      That’s not video games; that’s Hollywood
      - sjwright 9y ago
        I sincerely can't remember the last time I saw a hollywood movie where a single bullet could cause a car to fireball.
Faaak 9y ago
Are you shorting tesla and spreading false rumors ?

by debt 9y ago

space_fountain 9y ago

I'm by no means sure of the relative danger, but plain old gas cars can also have pretty big fires. Is it actually worse with batteries? The energy density is if anything lower.

sjwright 9y ago
At least with liquid fuels, the job of a fireman can be as simple as extinguishing the existing flame and cooling down anything that is hot. It's not so simple to stop a damaged lithium battery from continuously self-igniting. Read about the recent incident with the Rimac Concept One—it kept catching fire for five days!
- JshWright 9y ago
  > At least with liquid fuels, the job of a fireman can be as simple as extinguishing the existing flame and cooling down anything that is hot. As a firefighter, I think you and I likely have different ideas of what "simple" looks like in this case... EVs definitely pose unique hazards, but there is nothing "simple" about a car fire.
  - sjwright 9y ago
    That is fair. But I suspect your training and experience with car fires is substantial compared to EV fires. I suppose I didn't meant to say they are simple but rather well understood. I wonder when there are literally hundreds of unique popular models of EV on the road, whether there will be issues arising from having innumerable unique designs for battery packs, first responder lines etc.
    - JshWright 9y ago
      In many ways EV fires are easier (gas or gas vapors from a ruptured tank can flow quite a ways away from the vehicle, potentially unnoticed, before igniting; batteries don't tend to flow well...). It's just water, water, and more water... Tesla in particular is actually quite good about providing training materials for dealing with their vehicles, including facilitating the production of some excellent videos on hazards during extrication. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntK3rvVl2Qw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntK3rvVl2Qw As well as the standard safety manuals car manufacturers provide (though Tesla makes their especially easy to access). https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders

zaroth 9y ago

> ...the guy died from the burns from the inferno, not from the actual impact of the crash. Incorrect. “Witnesses were able to extract the driver before the flames posed any threat to him.“ Here is VIDEO of the Tesla immediately after the crash, taken by one of the guys who helped pull the driver out of the car: https://youtu.be/RlQTeF45aIE https://youtu.be/RlQTeF45aIE The battery is only just starting to ignite at this point after suffering catastrophic damage. (You can see individual cells torn apart). I would say this is significantly safer than a dozen gallons of gas which surely would have exploded in the same scenario. What IS true is that the aftermath is harder to cleanup because the damaged cells can pose a threat for reigniting.

ExcelSaga 9y ago
Gasoline under normal conditions doesn’t explode, it burns. I’m not denying that a fire was the likely outcome in either case, but neither gasoline nor batteries detonate, they deflagrate. Gasoline in particular, despite what Hollywood would have you believe, isn’t like nitroglycerin.
- zaroth 9y ago
  Thanks for the correction!
- sjwright 9y ago
  Actually I'd sooner blame video games, which often assert that a single bullet to the gas tank door will cause an instant car-flipping fireball.
  - colejohnson66 9y ago
    That’s not video games; that’s Hollywood
    - sjwright 9y ago
      I sincerely can't remember the last time I saw a hollywood movie where a single bullet could cause a car to fireball.

Faaak 9y ago

Are you shorting tesla and spreading false rumors ?