4 ms·

Yes, I'm from USA. And to be honest, I'm just trying out some new ideas here. I half-expected to be skewered here for proposing speech controls similar to gun

Yes, I'm from USA. And to be honest, I'm just trying out some new ideas here. I half-expected to be skewered here for proposing speech controls similar to gun controls, but it's actually becoming a mainstream view. The recent gun control marches have really opened up my eyes to this. I used to be a proponent of free speech, gun rights, drug legalization, and all the other internet libertarian ideas about freedom. I realize now that the culture is changing rapidly around me and that those old ideas about freedom put you on a path toward isolation, public scorn, and possibly criminality. You may need to reconsider your ideas about freedom before you get shunned in a way that hurts your family. Watch the gun control movement, the people trying to solve "fake news" with regulation, and other social movements. They're having great success at trading in freedom for security, and it seems inevitable that the same types of controls will be applied to speech. It's probably better to adapt early to the new normal and be on the "progressive" side than it is to side with hate mongers, gun activists, and drug addicts to promote freedom. You might think you can protect your family from societal change with critical thinking and appeals to classical liberal ideas, but I believe those ideas are the most likely to get you ostracized in our current environment. I think your best bet for protecting your family now is to conform early and often. We're going to sacrifice freedom for perceived security anyway, so you might as well get on the correct side of it before you become an outcast. Your comment about what "history teachers hid" from a generation and your need to "protect my family" place you somewhere near "alt-right" in the current landscape. You have to ask yourself if that's really where you want to be.

robotrout 9y ago
From Heinlein. Whenever the locals rub blue mud in their navels, I rub blue mud in mine just as solemnly. --Lazurus Long, Time Enough For Love I have begun to teach my children this, which conforms slightly to what you are advocating. However, my children will know they are blending into a dangerous mob, while you seem to advocate joining and promoting that mob as "a good progressive". If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever. While you and I may both agree that this is likely our future, you seem to be cheerleading it, or at least, trying to get in good with those in power (a good communist), while I am still struggling against it. Again, if you look at history, it's not only those who fight the evil who end up marched into the fields one last time. It's often also those who tried as you, to "not be ostracized", but still ended up suffering the same fate as those who resisted. That you almost threaten my safety if I am perceived as being on the "alt-right" end of the spectrum, should fill you with terror. You should remember that many of the people who started the French Revolution ended up being marched up to "the national razor" themselves when their faction split into sub-factions and they found themselves on the outside. Also, FYI, alt-right is composed of many Ron Paul type people, who HN used to like. That such people should fear from the mob is not a sign of a healthy society.
- unsayable 9y ago
  I'm not saying it's healthy, I'm just saying it's how it is. I also didn't mean to threaten your safety, but I think it's reasonable to caution anyone against being associated with "alt-right" stuff, because it is a safety concern. For example, if you're teaching your kids that sitting in class instead of walking out over gun control is the right thing to do, you might think that makes sense. Why protest for something that you don't believe in? But you're probably hurting their chances at being socially accepted, and there's a good chance the other kids will think your kid is likely to be the next school shooter simply by their lack of protesting. Sitting out is now more dramatic than joining the protesting already in progress. If you teach them that questioning the sentiment of the day is healthy, they're going to end up being identified as sexist, or racist, or a likely shooter, or whatever acceptable slur would describe the most perverse interpretation of their belief. I'm pretty sure Damore's intentions were good, but do you think his questioning of diversity initiatives was helpful to his career or his social life? The way these movements are shaping up, you can't be neutral. If you're not part of the perceived solution, you're part of the perceived problem, and you're going to be treated as a problem. But if you fall in line with the mob, you'll have more opportunities for advancement, networking, and community support. edit: Btw, I upvoted all of your comments. But you'll notice my suggestions for censorship are being upvoted while your cautionary tale about freedom is not... HN is illustrating my point for me.
  - robotrout 9y ago
    Understood that you were not personally threatening my family's safety, but were cautioning against the mob. Here's hoping that the pendulum swings towards sanity soon. Despite the walkouts in the news recently, there seems to be evidence that the youngest of us are beginning to reject the scary SJW mob mentality. Happily, the filter bubbles on the internet, or in silicon valley, are not representative of the entire country, so there are areas the mob does not yet rule. http://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/ http://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/

robotrout 9y ago

From Heinlein. Whenever the locals rub blue mud in their navels, I rub blue mud in mine just as solemnly. --Lazurus Long, Time Enough For Love I have begun to teach my children this, which conforms slightly to what you are advocating. However, my children will know they are blending into a dangerous mob, while you seem to advocate joining and promoting that mob as "a good progressive". If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever. While you and I may both agree that this is likely our future, you seem to be cheerleading it, or at least, trying to get in good with those in power (a good communist), while I am still struggling against it. Again, if you look at history, it's not only those who fight the evil who end up marched into the fields one last time. It's often also those who tried as you, to "not be ostracized", but still ended up suffering the same fate as those who resisted. That you almost threaten my safety if I am perceived as being on the "alt-right" end of the spectrum, should fill you with terror. You should remember that many of the people who started the French Revolution ended up being marched up to "the national razor" themselves when their faction split into sub-factions and they found themselves on the outside. Also, FYI, alt-right is composed of many Ron Paul type people, who HN used to like. That such people should fear from the mob is not a sign of a healthy society.

unsayable 9y ago
I'm not saying it's healthy, I'm just saying it's how it is. I also didn't mean to threaten your safety, but I think it's reasonable to caution anyone against being associated with "alt-right" stuff, because it is a safety concern. For example, if you're teaching your kids that sitting in class instead of walking out over gun control is the right thing to do, you might think that makes sense. Why protest for something that you don't believe in? But you're probably hurting their chances at being socially accepted, and there's a good chance the other kids will think your kid is likely to be the next school shooter simply by their lack of protesting. Sitting out is now more dramatic than joining the protesting already in progress. If you teach them that questioning the sentiment of the day is healthy, they're going to end up being identified as sexist, or racist, or a likely shooter, or whatever acceptable slur would describe the most perverse interpretation of their belief. I'm pretty sure Damore's intentions were good, but do you think his questioning of diversity initiatives was helpful to his career or his social life? The way these movements are shaping up, you can't be neutral. If you're not part of the perceived solution, you're part of the perceived problem, and you're going to be treated as a problem. But if you fall in line with the mob, you'll have more opportunities for advancement, networking, and community support. edit: Btw, I upvoted all of your comments. But you'll notice my suggestions for censorship are being upvoted while your cautionary tale about freedom is not... HN is illustrating my point for me.
- robotrout 9y ago
  Understood that you were not personally threatening my family's safety, but were cautioning against the mob. Here's hoping that the pendulum swings towards sanity soon. Despite the walkouts in the news recently, there seems to be evidence that the youngest of us are beginning to reject the scary SJW mob mentality. Happily, the filter bubbles on the internet, or in silicon valley, are not representative of the entire country, so there are areas the mob does not yet rule. http://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/ http://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/