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Lyft commits to closing wage gaps across race and gender
- romanovcode 9y agoWhy is it that Asian people are earning 2x more than white people yet article is focusing on "white men"? Nice journalism. Not biased at all. https://i.imgur.com/rjmHYk0.png https://i.imgur.com/rjmHYk0.png
- neveroffensive 9y ago> Why is it that Asian people are earning 2x more than white people yet article is focusing on "white men"? Because pay discrimination is actually skill discrimination, but we're all ideologues and have to ignore information to keep our fragile narratives intact. Edit: It's my understanding the wage gap has been thoroughly debunked. It's core premise relies on a univariate analysis of lifetime earnings that has no real analytical value. Although, in some instances, pay discrimination may still exist. It's isolated, and completely illegal.
- justaman 9y agoThere has been a strong hate towards white men in particular in recent years. Everything seems to be their fault if you read huffpo.
- faitswulff 9y agoIt's not actually a recent phenomenon...
- vkou 9y agoThe problem is not white men, the problem is that our society has many (but not all) systemic biases that benefits them, at the expense of others. Many of these biases are so ingrained, they are invisible. As a white man, I don't have to deal with many categories of bullshit that people of color and women are subjected to. I do have to deal with a few things that they don't, but there aren't many of them.
- hudon 9y agoThis seems like a wildly sexist and racist sentiment. Do you have any evidence that being a white man causes you to have greater opportunities?
- ghettoimp 9y agoUh... yes? Are you seriously proposing that our society doesn't give white men more opportunities than minorities and women? Or that they don't have to deal with shit that white men don't have to? (If so I'd recommend the podcasts Reveal, Scene on Radio, Us and Them, and so forth.)
- hudon 9y agoI'm asking for evidence that "being a white man causes you to have greater opportunities". If you can't provide that but you're only going to provide additional outrage, you're not really adding to the discussion.
- ghettoimp 9y agoPretty sure I added more than whatever "outrage" you are inferring from my comment with my podcast suggestions. Here's a recent Reveal episode where they discuss how banks won't lend to black folks: https://www.revealnews.org/article/for-people-of-color-banks-are-shutting-the-door-to-homeownership/ https://www.revealnews.org/article/for-people-of-color-banks... Of course unequal lending and housing opportunities go back in time forever, with huge consequences for, e.g., the wealth that white vs. black families have been able to accumulate over time, since houses are most folks' biggest assets. Here's a recent Scene on Radio episode where they discuss the long history of federal programs that benefit whites and exclude blacks, etc. Of course you should really listen to the rest of the series for context: https://documentarystudies.duke.edu/podcasts/white-affirmative-action-seeing-white-part-13 https://documentarystudies.duke.edu/podcasts/white-affirmati... This is actually really interesting stuff to learn about, if you'd care to.
- tatotato 9y agoThis is wrong. The article states Asian males earn 117% as much, which is just 17% more. This is one of the things that turns me off Hacker News, an overly strong bias in defense of white men.
- romanovcode 9y agoYes, you are right. But even so - the point stands. I'm not trying to defend anything, especially white men. I'm just saying this journalism is biased to portray white men in bad light.
- dragonwriter 9y agoHow is the factually correct claim that white men, in the study, earn more than Black and Hispanic men, and more than women of any racial/ethnic category, painting them in a “bad light”? Would there equally true statement that Asian men earn more than men of any other racial/ethnic category and more than women of any ethnic category be painting Asian men in a “bad light”?
- ovao 9y agoI think the issue stems from the author pointing out that white male wages as statistically disconcerting with respect to the racial pay gap without raising the issue of Asian male wages as being the same.
- dragonwriter 9y agoThere is no group referred to as specifically disconcerting. And both the relatively high pay of white males (in the body text) and Asian of both genders (in bold callouts on the graphics) are highlighted. White males are the comparison baseline, but Asians couldn't be used for that because they don't have data for the first decade+.
- ovao 9y ago
- dragonwriter 9y ago> Why is it that Asian people are earning 2x more than white people They aren't. 2× more is 300% of the base value. Asian men make 117% of what white men make, Asian women make 87% of what white men make (or 106% of what white women make.) So, Asian people earn between 6% and 17% more, not “2× more”, than what white people of the same gender make.
- romanovcode 9y agoAs someone else pointed out - yes, you are right and I was wrong. However the point stands - Asians make more money then everyone yet article points out how white men are earning more. Again, I'm not trying to defend any white men or whatever, however don't you see the clear agenda this journalist is pushing?
- billyo 9y agoAgree, this is not controlling for the types of jobs that people are doing! Also if Lyft only spent $100K on it, they clearly didn’t find much of an issue. This is just a feel good story for marketing purposes. #trash
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- troupe 9y agoI'm curious how they determined that the 1% of cases were gender and race-based and not something else. With such a small number, it seems like it would be very easy for the variations to be caused by other factors. It is probably good PR for them, but the math behind the decision would be pretty interesting.
- lallysingh 9y ago1% of a large number is still a large number.
- troupe 9y agoYes, but with a small enough number you might be able to find that people with blue eyes are paid more than people with brown eyes. You'd expect some level of random variation and such a small number makes it seem that it may really not have anything to do with their gender. Think of it this way. If you flipped a coin a large number of times and 51% of the times it came up heads would you assume the coin was biased or would you suspect that it could just be random variation?
- oh_sigh 9y agoHow do you close the wage gap? Is it just bulk monetary transfer to people who identify as women?
- ovao 9y agoPresumably Lyft increased pay rates for those they identified as having been paid unequally due to race or gender.
- oh_sigh 9y agoAh, I see this is for Lyft employees, and not Lyft drivers which I assumed. It makes sense that Lyft would have much more data regarding sexism or racism affecting their employees than they would sexism or racism affecting drivers.
- zxcba23sdf23 9y agoI'd rather Lyft commit to closing wage gaps across workers-managers It's a joke to think a CEO is really generating 80x the typical pay of a worker in value. Studies haven't been able to find any conclusion on HOW value is generated in the first place. They run into so many variables from go, it becomes a complicated mess. This is basically "divine right" masquerading as quantitative measure. They're smart, yes? So of course they know they provide that much value, say the rubes who never question it.
- wu-ikkyu 9y agoThe central variable that creates the "gender pay gap" is not sexist employer discrimination. The gap is primarily created by the fact that women, more typically than men, are the ones who raise children full time. https://www.creators.com/read/thomas-sowell/04/14/statistical-frauds https://www.creators.com/read/thomas-sowell/04/14/statistica...
- cbhl 9y agoYes, we should also be advocating for better paternity leave policies, so that men can take a bigger role in child care. However, that does not mean companies shouldn't audit pay across race and gender, controlling for job role, level and performance. Nor does it mean companies shouldn't audit performance reviews for inequity. Nor does it mean companies shouldn't audit job role and level and promotion processes for inequity. Nor does it mean companies shouldn't audit hiring processes for inequity. Different people experience inequity in different ways. Some people experience it in more than one way. We need systemic solutions to address each of these failure modes.
- wu-ikkyu 9y agoIndeed consistency is important. Likewise it is important to review these things without the influence of erroneous prejudice, such as the belief that women with the same skills and experience are being systemically paid less due to rampant sexism.
- jinushaun 9y agoNo amount of “better” paternity leave will ever mean that I will be able to birth and nurse a child myself. (First time dad here of a 5 month old) Nor do I require extra time off before the birth. Fathers don’t have this issue because they don’t lose time giving birth and recovering no matter how involved they are in taking care of the kid after birth. This lost time is unavoidable for working moms. Even in countries with generous leave policy, this lost time is unrecoverable and has a permanent affect on your career. For example, in Italy the mother is forced to take a year off whether they want to or not. That’s one year less of a promotion or pay raise. Time is money and time not working is time not earning money. These are real obstacles women face in the workforce that drive down their earning potential. Successful women either choose to not have children, or earn enough to pay someone else to care for their children full time.
- cbhl 9y agoThis only covers full-time employees (software engineers, designers, and the like), right? Not any of their drivers?
- gringoDan 9y agoCorrect. Some economists from Stanford & Uber actually did a fascinating analysis of the gender earnings gap for drivers. tl;dr - Men earn 7% more: > We find that the entire gender gap is caused by three factors: experience on the platform (learning-by-doing), preferences over where/when to work, and preferences for driving speed. https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/UberPayGap.pdf https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/UberPayGap.pdf Edit - I originally found out about this study from a Freakonomics podcast. These economists are chomping at the bit to get newer data (which will include tips). Their hypothesis is that women's earnings will increase, since women's tips are 10-20% greater than men's. However, they also say tipping increases the supply of drivers, which will serve to decrease utilization rate and thus lower hourly pay.