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I also stopped paying for health insurance; the cost of healthcare was already high and Obamacare only exacerbated the problem. This article is misleading, sug

• fahayekwasright 9y ago
  Is there an equivalent of this for non religious people? The pricing sounds better but I don’t go to church.
• wmeredith 9y ago
  I’m assuming you mean the Affordable Healthcare Act? I find the whole Obamacare thing divisive and obnoxious.
  • dragonwriter 9y ago
    > I’m assuming you mean the Affordable Healthcare Act? I’m assuming you mean the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, probably in combination with the related parts of the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010.
  • njarboe 9y ago
    Even Obama thinks the word Obamacare is fine[1] and it is much better name than the official one. "Obamacare" is short, unique and not made up of words that put some kind of spin on the bill. Names like "PATRIOT" act should be ridiculed and not used by the press or the public. [1]https://www.politico.com/story/2014/02/barack-obama-obamacare-103589 https://www.politico.com/story/2014/02/barack-obama-obamacar...
    • mc32 9y ago
      And this follows the "Romneycare" pattern or naming these sorts of things after their major proponents like "Reaganomics". I guess this "anthropomorphism" of concepts allows them personality and transfers some of their namesakes' charisma making the things "more relatable" to the "average Jane and Joe".
• testb 9y ago
  Interesting, anyone else have experience with health bill sharing programs? Hadn't heard of this before
• ericmcer 9y ago
  My Health insurance has also been in limbo since Obamacare. I was working in retail at the time and my employer used it as justification to immediately cut our health insurance and start paying us a once yearly health insurance subsidy. Obamacare seemed ok for the first year, but it has slowly crept up and is now insanely pricey. Will the government ever learn that pouring tons of taxpayer money into a broken system doesn't fix it? If milk was $50 a gallon a good fix would not be to give everyone a $200/month milk stipend (unless you wanted those sweet dairy kickbacks).
• chrisbennet 9y ago
  My health insurance was something like $800/mo with ObamaCare for 2 adults. When Trump said he wouldn’t reimburse insurance companies my insurance almost doubled to $1500 for the same plan(ish) with a higher deductible. We also opted for some sort of health sharing plan. So yes, Trump rolling back Obamacare did massively increase health insurance.
  • judah 9y ago
    But Obamacare is still in effect. He removed the government fine for not getting healthcare.
    • chrisbennet 9y ago
      Yes, you're correct, parts of Obamacare are still in effect. Trump "blew it up" by increasing the costs for insurance companies which passed the costs onto the insured.
• eftychis 9y ago
  Sorry for my question, but I am not familiar: What is the difference of the "Christian health bill sharing ministry" to health insurance. It seems to me to follow the main idea of health care, just you know in a social humane way closer to EU approach and not that of a we are going to gouge your eyes out like health insurance companies in the U.S. do. What am I missing?
  • didibus 9y ago
    Its the same thing, but its exempt from insurer regulations. That means they are not obligated to cover your medical expense and you are not allowed to sue them. Repayment is always up to their discretion, and they can spend the money however they want. They generally reimburse you after you've paid out of pocket, and normally have a lower cap on how much they'll reimbourse, something like up to 250k max. Its Christian based, they normally only allow Christians to join, and won't pay for injuries caused by activities they don't believe follow their values. Such as STDs from sexual relations outside of marriage, drugs, alchool, fighting, etc. So what is regulation replaced by? Trust in other Christians. If you trust Christians to be less corrupt and more fair in distributing the pool of money contributed in a fair way to members who most need it. And if you trust other members to be willing to suddenly give extra in case the pool runs out and people still need money for their medical expenses. In contrast, with normal insurance you have to trust government audit to make sure insurers follow regulations, and trust that they won't wait for you to take them to court to pay up. Generally, because real insurers have those regulation, they'll want to be very sure they can cover people even in the worst case, which means boosting premiums and deductibles, etc. Also, most normal insurers are for profit and might also want to charge more simply to boost their profit, while health sharing ministries are non for profit, though some of them have been criticised for their founders and employees to pay themselves too big a salary and give themselves too many bonuses.
    • nickthemagicman 9y ago
      > So what is regulation replaced by? Trust in other Christians. Man it would be great if other areas of Human Life worked this way. You could get rid of the SEC and just let the bankers run with Christian trust instead of regulation. I personally think the regulation is there for a reason but I'm really glad you found something that works for you and hope that your trust isn't taken advantage of.
• didibus 9y ago
  Apparently they're based on the bible quote: "Bear one another’s burdens, and thus fulfill the law of Christ.” Which sounds to me like a good justification for nationwide healthcare like we have in Canada. Except its done in a Christianwide way instead of nationwide. I find that interesting, since the argument against nationwide healthcare is often: "Why should I pay for other peoples health issues if I'm healthy." Or to put it differently, the every man for themselves mentality. What are your thoughts on nationwide healthcare then, as an extended version of CHM, but where the values (aka, rules of elegibility, and what is covered/not covered) are those of the nation instead of those of specific Christian organizations? Is it really important for you for it to be an opt in system? Is it really important that it be based on a specific interpretation of Christian values instead of the larger US values? Or is it just whatever is cheapest? I ask out of interest in understanding varied perspectives, feel free to ignore my questions if you find them too personal.
  • EADGBE 9y ago
    I think most Americans who look deep into it view Health Sharing as a national Healthcare initiative. It's certainly extremely similar to me, minus the contributions coming in post-paycheck. People (Americans) probably couldn't visualize savings with a national system before these really starting to become populate as of late. Maybe because it was mostly just an idea in our situation? (the burden of one spread across all) Let's be honest, the Church is probably better at budgeting for this than the Government. I wouldn't be surprised at all if these become more and more common for the common man that a suggestion to move to a national system is brought up (and taken a bit more seriously).
  • judah 9y ago
    My answers: > What are your thoughts on nationwide healthcare then, as an extended version of CHM, but where the values (aka, rules of elegibility, and what is covered/not covered) are those of the nation instead of those of specific Christian organizations? I don't like it for a few reasons. First, government is famous for inefficiency and bloat. I am certain the government would do a poor job of good, affordable healthcare. (Rational people must concede this given the evidence today.) Secondly, cost will be a problem for any system that covers existing conditions; it's the equivalent to buying house insurance when your house has already burned down. That's not insurance. Third, and most importantly, nationwide insurance is not a self-maintaining community. In small groups that share values, when someone no longer lives according to the community's standards, they're removed from the community. This is not possible in nationwide healthcare. So, someone abusing the medical system or living a lifestyle contrary to standards of our community cannot continue abusing the system. This self-maintaining socialistic system works well in smaller communities with shared values, where abusers can be removed from the community. In a nationwide system, this isn't possible, driving up costs further. > Is it really important for you for it to be an opt in system? Yes. I do not wished to be coerced into government programs of any kind. That this is both private and optional makes this attractive to me from a libertarian standpoint. > Is it really important that it be based on a specific interpretation of Christian values instead of the larger US values? Not a specific interpretation, no. Just the basic interpretation of caring for the sick; a plain interpretation of Jesus' words[0]. [0]: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+25%3A35-40&version=TLV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+25%3A35...
• EADGBE 9y ago
  Looked into these; very interesting. Do you have to attend a church (and prove it)? Does it support same-sex marriages? How does/did your prescription costs compare (if you had any)? I assume a generic co-pay for tiered drugs for your traditional plan; not sure what Health Sharing's different prescription discount plans provide. I don't have much of anything against Christianity, but I think there's a market for Agnostic Health Sharing programs; for those who may be affected by these first two requirements, of which may be non-qualifying for some organizations/individuals. =========================================================== From their guidelines: 9. Unwed mothers There are times even in the Christian community that unwed women become pregnant. Christian Healthcare Ministries members have agreed not to share medical bills for pregnancies of unwed mothers. Instead, CHM recognizes that in such circumstances the assistance needed goes far beyond financial aid... I saw that coming from a mile away...
  • TheCoelacanth 9y ago
    Sorry Mary, I guess Jesus's birth isn't covered.
  • dragonwriter 9y ago
    It's quite odd to use the claim that the needs go far beyond X as an excuse for excluding X.
    • EADGBE 9y ago
      Agreed, I'd argue an unwed mother could use all the assistance she needs in her particular situation to better her and her unborn child's life. Helping when help is needed is a core Christian value, I'm told.
  • judah 9y ago
    Original poster here. To be part of our community, you must abide by the community's rules. Our values include an ideal of male-female marriage, no sex outside of marriage, no drug use or alcohol abuse, etc. You know, the things we adherents of the Bible have believed for 3500 years. :-) Interestingly enough, many of our values -- monogamy, heterosexual marriage, no drugs or alcohol abuse -- tend to produce people with fewer health issues. You don't have to agree with us. If you don't like our values, by all means form your own medical health sharing groups.
• wwweston 9y ago
  Not to pour cold water on you or anyone this is working for, but since this can read as a recommendation, it's worth pointing out a few things. This is another form of insurance. It's arguably a distinct model for it than a conventional insurance company, but it's a way of addressing the same fundamental set of problems, so it's subject to the same realities and dynamics any insurance solution is. So... why would it be so much cheaper? Possible answers include no profit overhead, freedom from regulation might allow administrators to find efficiencies. And for some programs, particularly long-running ones tied to tightly-knit communities invested in taking care of everyone inside, perhaps it more or less works that way. Possible answers also include basically everything you worried about conventional private insurers doing pre-ACA: avoiding expensive obligations through various exclusions, bureaucratic obstruction, or selectivity in adding people to the shared-cost pool. There's also the risk that for the given fees it's actually not going to work out for some HCSMs once they hit the wrong group roll of the health-event dice. This is not to say it won't work out for you. It's worked out for some communities for a long time and may go well. Just be aware that it's also possible that the reason you're paying less is that you're not getting the same kind of backstop. Further reading: * https://www.buzzfeed.com/lauraturner/christian-health-care https://www.buzzfeed.com/lauraturner/christian-health-care * https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/07/a-christian-alternative-to-health-insurance/260112/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/07/a-christi... * https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/christian-health-ministry-obamacare_us_5a9d66fee4b0a0ba4ad6754b https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/christian-health-minist... * https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/01/opinion/sunday/onward-christian-health-care.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/01/opinion/sunday/onward-chr... * https://obamacarefacts.com/healthcare-sharing-ministry-exemptions/ https://obamacarefacts.com/healthcare-sharing-ministry-exemp...
  • judah 9y ago
    It's not insurance. They disclose this on their own site[0]. When you go to the hospital, you disclose that. "I don't have health insurance, I am self-paid with a health sharing ministry." I think another major reason is that health sharing ministries don't typically cover pre-existing conditions. That is huge; acquiring health insurance for a pre-existing condition is like buying house insurance after your home has already burned down. Another reason the cost is lower is that, unlike nationwide healthcare, we're a self-maintaining community. You abide by the communities standards -- which tend to decrease disease -- and you remain in the community. But if you break the community standards, and engage in medically-risky behavior, you're removed from the community. This works great for smaller groups with shared values. It cannot work in nationwide healthcare. And it's a big reason the cost is so much lower. [0]: www.chministries.org/downloads/newsletters/CHMApril2013.pdf