6 ms·

The first amendment wasn't written with social media in mind, just like the second amendment wasn't written with semi-automatic rifles in mind. The US needs to

The first amendment wasn't written with social media in mind, just like the second amendment wasn't written with semi-automatic rifles in mind. The US needs to enact common sense speech control to stop these tragedies from propagating. Secondary thought: maybe if we restrict online speech to those over 21, we could stop a lot of bullying that leads to these problems in the first place, and as an extra benefit this kind of ban could stop children from posting things online that will negatively impact them later in life.

robotrout 9y ago
> maybe if we restrict online speech to those over 21 Even as an old guy, I hate that solution. Something about "Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither", except it's not the kids giving up their liberty, it's you taking it from them. I also can't imagine how you could stop it. There's lots of people under 21 that can code.
- unsayable 9y ago
  Perhaps if you had to pass a background check, then you could be allowed to engage in approved speech? In 2018, speech can cause just as much damage as a car, and we all agree you need a license to operate a car. A license could probably help with the "fake news" epidemic too. Sure, it's hard to totally stop people from using speech irresponsibly and hurting others, but if we aggressively prosecute unlawful speech, we could probably reduce the amount of harm done by people speaking their minds.
  - robotrout 9y ago
    > aggressively prosecute unlawful speech What country are you from? I hope you are not from USA. No matter where you are from, I have to tell you that you are on a path that will lead to the slaughter of millions, if you achieve your goals. I am sorry your history teachers hid from you, the examples of when and how this occurred in the recent past. I can only tell you that you and your age cohort have been ill served by the school system and I hope to protect my family from the consequences of that failure, somehow.
    - unsayable 9y ago
      Yes, I'm from USA. And to be honest, I'm just trying out some new ideas here. I half-expected to be skewered here for proposing speech controls similar to gun controls, but it's actually becoming a mainstream view. The recent gun control marches have really opened up my eyes to this. I used to be a proponent of free speech, gun rights, drug legalization, and all the other internet libertarian ideas about freedom. I realize now that the culture is changing rapidly around me and that those old ideas about freedom put you on a path toward isolation, public scorn, and possibly criminality. You may need to reconsider your ideas about freedom before you get shunned in a way that hurts your family. Watch the gun control movement, the people trying to solve "fake news" with regulation, and other social movements. They're having great success at trading in freedom for security, and it seems inevitable that the same types of controls will be applied to speech. It's probably better to adapt early to the new normal and be on the "progressive" side than it is to side with hate mongers, gun activists, and drug addicts to promote freedom. You might think you can protect your family from societal change with critical thinking and appeals to classical liberal ideas, but I believe those ideas are the most likely to get you ostracized in our current environment. I think your best bet for protecting your family now is to conform early and often. We're going to sacrifice freedom for perceived security anyway, so you might as well get on the correct side of it before you become an outcast. Your comment about what "history teachers hid" from a generation and your need to "protect my family" place you somewhere near "alt-right" in the current landscape. You have to ask yourself if that's really where you want to be.
      - robotrout 9y ago
        From Heinlein. Whenever the locals rub blue mud in their navels, I rub blue mud in mine just as solemnly. --Lazurus Long, Time Enough For Love I have begun to teach my children this, which conforms slightly to what you are advocating. However, my children will know they are blending into a dangerous mob, while you seem to advocate joining and promoting that mob as "a good progressive". If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever. While you and I may both agree that this is likely our future, you seem to be cheerleading it, or at least, trying to get in good with those in power (a good communist), while I am still struggling against it. Again, if you look at history, it's not only those who fight the evil who end up marched into the fields one last time. It's often also those who tried as you, to "not be ostracized", but still ended up suffering the same fate as those who resisted. That you almost threaten my safety if I am perceived as being on the "alt-right" end of the spectrum, should fill you with terror. You should remember that many of the people who started the French Revolution ended up being marched up to "the national razor" themselves when their faction split into sub-factions and they found themselves on the outside. Also, FYI, alt-right is composed of many Ron Paul type people, who HN used to like. That such people should fear from the mob is not a sign of a healthy society.
RyanZAG 9y ago
> The first amendment wasn't written with social media in mind, just like the second amendment wasn't written with semi-automatic rifles in mind. This doesn't seem terribly likely. In the case of the second amendment in 1791, things like swivel guns were available, and at the time the second amendment was written, swivel guns were permissible. Now even an old swivel gun from those days would do measurably far more damage than the kind of semi-automatic rifles used in today's shootings. Such weaponry would only be banned far later in 1934, and probably the original authors of the 2nd amendment would not have banned it. So there is no reason to believe that the 2nd amendment was not written with semi-automatic rifles in mind. It almost definitely was: it was written so that the common man could band together into a militia and be able to take on the full might of the army and government. Now certainly such an idea may be flawed and you are free to disagree with it. But the authors of the 2nd amendment were certainly aware of the existence as such things as guns that could kill a lot of people very quickly, and they very much covered them with the 2nd amendment.
- unsayable 9y ago
  That's pretty interesting. I was unaware of swivel guns. Though it appears the first "consumer" versions of semi-automatic rifles are from the early 1900s with the M1 Garand being the point of mass adoption: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_rifle#Notable_early_semi-automatic_rifles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_rifle#Notable_e...

robotrout 9y ago

> maybe if we restrict online speech to those over 21 Even as an old guy, I hate that solution. Something about "Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither", except it's not the kids giving up their liberty, it's you taking it from them. I also can't imagine how you could stop it. There's lots of people under 21 that can code.

unsayable 9y ago
Perhaps if you had to pass a background check, then you could be allowed to engage in approved speech? In 2018, speech can cause just as much damage as a car, and we all agree you need a license to operate a car. A license could probably help with the "fake news" epidemic too. Sure, it's hard to totally stop people from using speech irresponsibly and hurting others, but if we aggressively prosecute unlawful speech, we could probably reduce the amount of harm done by people speaking their minds.
- robotrout 9y ago
  > aggressively prosecute unlawful speech What country are you from? I hope you are not from USA. No matter where you are from, I have to tell you that you are on a path that will lead to the slaughter of millions, if you achieve your goals. I am sorry your history teachers hid from you, the examples of when and how this occurred in the recent past. I can only tell you that you and your age cohort have been ill served by the school system and I hope to protect my family from the consequences of that failure, somehow.
  - unsayable 9y ago
    Yes, I'm from USA. And to be honest, I'm just trying out some new ideas here. I half-expected to be skewered here for proposing speech controls similar to gun controls, but it's actually becoming a mainstream view. The recent gun control marches have really opened up my eyes to this. I used to be a proponent of free speech, gun rights, drug legalization, and all the other internet libertarian ideas about freedom. I realize now that the culture is changing rapidly around me and that those old ideas about freedom put you on a path toward isolation, public scorn, and possibly criminality. You may need to reconsider your ideas about freedom before you get shunned in a way that hurts your family. Watch the gun control movement, the people trying to solve "fake news" with regulation, and other social movements. They're having great success at trading in freedom for security, and it seems inevitable that the same types of controls will be applied to speech. It's probably better to adapt early to the new normal and be on the "progressive" side than it is to side with hate mongers, gun activists, and drug addicts to promote freedom. You might think you can protect your family from societal change with critical thinking and appeals to classical liberal ideas, but I believe those ideas are the most likely to get you ostracized in our current environment. I think your best bet for protecting your family now is to conform early and often. We're going to sacrifice freedom for perceived security anyway, so you might as well get on the correct side of it before you become an outcast. Your comment about what "history teachers hid" from a generation and your need to "protect my family" place you somewhere near "alt-right" in the current landscape. You have to ask yourself if that's really where you want to be.
    - robotrout 9y ago
      From Heinlein. Whenever the locals rub blue mud in their navels, I rub blue mud in mine just as solemnly. --Lazurus Long, Time Enough For Love I have begun to teach my children this, which conforms slightly to what you are advocating. However, my children will know they are blending into a dangerous mob, while you seem to advocate joining and promoting that mob as "a good progressive". If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever. While you and I may both agree that this is likely our future, you seem to be cheerleading it, or at least, trying to get in good with those in power (a good communist), while I am still struggling against it. Again, if you look at history, it's not only those who fight the evil who end up marched into the fields one last time. It's often also those who tried as you, to "not be ostracized", but still ended up suffering the same fate as those who resisted. That you almost threaten my safety if I am perceived as being on the "alt-right" end of the spectrum, should fill you with terror. You should remember that many of the people who started the French Revolution ended up being marched up to "the national razor" themselves when their faction split into sub-factions and they found themselves on the outside. Also, FYI, alt-right is composed of many Ron Paul type people, who HN used to like. That such people should fear from the mob is not a sign of a healthy society.

RyanZAG 9y ago

> The first amendment wasn't written with social media in mind, just like the second amendment wasn't written with semi-automatic rifles in mind. This doesn't seem terribly likely. In the case of the second amendment in 1791, things like swivel guns were available, and at the time the second amendment was written, swivel guns were permissible. Now even an old swivel gun from those days would do measurably far more damage than the kind of semi-automatic rifles used in today's shootings. Such weaponry would only be banned far later in 1934, and probably the original authors of the 2nd amendment would not have banned it. So there is no reason to believe that the 2nd amendment was not written with semi-automatic rifles in mind. It almost definitely was: it was written so that the common man could band together into a militia and be able to take on the full might of the army and government. Now certainly such an idea may be flawed and you are free to disagree with it. But the authors of the 2nd amendment were certainly aware of the existence as such things as guns that could kill a lot of people very quickly, and they very much covered them with the 2nd amendment.

unsayable 9y ago
That's pretty interesting. I was unaware of swivel guns. Though it appears the first "consumer" versions of semi-automatic rifles are from the early 1900s with the M1 Garand being the point of mass adoption: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_rifle#Notable_early_semi-automatic_rifles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_rifle#Notable_e...