3 ms·

One last thought: Just about every night when I'm about to fall asleep, I'll notice the logical inconsistency of my own thoughts and think something to the effe

One last thought: Just about every night when I'm about to fall asleep, I'll notice the logical inconsistency of my own thoughts and think something to the effect of "Wait, what exactly do kangaroos have to do with zeppelin pilots anyway? Oh, awesome, I must be about to fall asleep. Freakin' finally. ZZZZZ..." I'd love to be able to do this more when fully awake. Sometimes I can -- I'll realize the influence of my emotions on my thoughts when considering them. But not as often as I'd like. I liken it to a kind of metacognitive exception-throwing. Have you guys found ways to put a few more asserts() in your thought process?

whacked_new 19y ago
I have noticed this "inconsistency" before falling asleep too. Does anybody have any idea why it happens?
- mrtron 19y ago
  I have this happen very regularly.
- pauek 19y ago
  My guess is that the brain is trying new combinations, so that if you hit a new idea during the day, it will get reinforced (you get "excited"). So the brain "shuffles" stuff during the night (dreams) and during the day selects. It is like evolutionary modification of behavior, in a way. But to do it, you have to reinforce a little the nonsensical stuff for a while (and at speed). This semi-conscious state in which there are inconsistencies is "pre"-dream, in which almost everything is quite nonsensical, but it kind of "makes sense", so it gets reinforced a bit. The interesting thing is that this is done in parallel, so what you remember about a dream is like a small part of what your cortex was "thinking", a massive recombination of ideas. Well, I could go on and on with my speculations... ;)
  - whacked_new 19y ago
    This is interesting speculation, but also curious is how it happens whenever I get drowsy, which includes the drowsiness following a heavy meal. So either the brain capitalizes on the signals of the body ready to go to sleep, then it immediately starts reorganizing memories, or the body tries to go to sleep once the brain starts to reorganize memories; or, since sleep is regulated in part by hormones, the hormone production precedes both the brain and body... haha, the more I think about it the less I think I know. If it is hormonal then, perhaps certain foods could induce the behavior more strongly than others?
aswanson 19y ago
what exactly do kangaroos have to do with zeppelin pilots anyway Hilarious. The strange thing to me is, while you are in this state, the connection makes perfect sense. It's only when you snap out does it become inconsistent. Maybe it has to do with certain portions of the brain relaxing before others.
- midnightmonster 19y ago
  What you describe is more like my experience when half-awoken in the middle of the night. That's when I'll hold adamantly to some complete bit of nonsense ("Really, this does make sense!") while my wife smiles and nods and tries to get me to turn over and go back to sleep. I often remember the event afterward and can't think why I thought I was making sense. In contrast, when I'm falling asleep (and I assumed this was more what the parent was talking about) I'll suddenly realize that there have been one or several strands of nonsense running in my head for what seems like some time. Sometimes the strands seemed like reasonable trains of thought until I attended to them, sometimes they're just imagined dialog of other people (experienced as mentally overheard instead of consciously imagined) or something else. But to become aware of them (and to be aware of them as nonsense) in the falling asleep case isn't to snap out of the state. The state continues often until I'm asleep, and a kind of metacognition appears over it with the realization that my thoughts don't make any sense and drawing the conclusion that I'm in the process of falling asleep. Except the original state is probably better described as semi- or sub-cognition. It's nice to know a couple other people have similar experiences. I'm not aware of any connection in myself between throwing an exception when almost asleep and being mindful of my emotional state and its effects while awake. (Except perhaps the correlation that I'm more mindful generally now than a few years ago, and the going-to-sleep thing might be a last-couple-years phenomenon. I don't remember it for sure before then.) I do find that using programming metaphors (e.g., throwing an exception) for my mental processes is almost always misleading.
  - yters 19y ago
    I think this metacognition is starting to bleed over into my dreams:( or :) Also, I don't think it is just nonsense. These strange thoughts seem to have two levels to them. The more syntactic level, i.e. being part of a video game and fighting giants doesn't make any sense. But, it is the intuitive meaning behind these images that does make sense. So, my theory is that I'm not necessarily thinking nonsense, but thinking on a different level. A level switch causes that meta-cognition of "nonsense" to occur. This is similar to reading good literature. Often, great books make use of complex imagery that doesn't make much literal sense. But, focussing on the intuitive impressions that the images bring seems to convey some kind of deeper meaning.
kleevr 19y ago
Reminds me of a zen method. As you're waiting to fall asleep you slowly count up. Each time you get to five, go back to one. If you're lucky you might remember catching yourself at 6 or 12 a couple times, but usually your just out! (It takes a little practice.) A little glossolalia will fork your language processing and symbolic thought, and help turn the volume down on the pesky internal monologue.
caudicus 19y ago
Listen to this episode of Radio Lab - http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2007/05/25 http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2007/05/25 - it talks how, in our dreams, we start to do free association of events that have occurred during the day to make sense of them. Pretty interesting stuff.
- nazgulnarsil 19y ago
  intelligence is famously hard to define but I think a big chunk of it is associating ideas. most people have set pathways, x associates with y and so on. the more intelligent cross-reference more things. while you are asleep your brain plays with associations. I would bet that someone who didn't dream would do substantially worse on cognitive tests of all sorts.
  - yters 19y ago
    The less sleep I have the more narrow minded I become.
icky 19y ago
I've had dreams where I was in my room and it was completely realistic, but for some minor detail, such as a digital clock reading " 4:63 am". Often, I will notice the impossibility, even "consciously" within the context of the dream, and then I wake up.

whacked_new 19y ago

I have noticed this "inconsistency" before falling asleep too. Does anybody have any idea why it happens?

mrtron 19y ago
I have this happen very regularly.
pauek 19y ago
My guess is that the brain is trying new combinations, so that if you hit a new idea during the day, it will get reinforced (you get "excited"). So the brain "shuffles" stuff during the night (dreams) and during the day selects. It is like evolutionary modification of behavior, in a way. But to do it, you have to reinforce a little the nonsensical stuff for a while (and at speed). This semi-conscious state in which there are inconsistencies is "pre"-dream, in which almost everything is quite nonsensical, but it kind of "makes sense", so it gets reinforced a bit. The interesting thing is that this is done in parallel, so what you remember about a dream is like a small part of what your cortex was "thinking", a massive recombination of ideas. Well, I could go on and on with my speculations... ;)
- whacked_new 19y ago
  This is interesting speculation, but also curious is how it happens whenever I get drowsy, which includes the drowsiness following a heavy meal. So either the brain capitalizes on the signals of the body ready to go to sleep, then it immediately starts reorganizing memories, or the body tries to go to sleep once the brain starts to reorganize memories; or, since sleep is regulated in part by hormones, the hormone production precedes both the brain and body... haha, the more I think about it the less I think I know. If it is hormonal then, perhaps certain foods could induce the behavior more strongly than others?

aswanson 19y ago

what exactly do kangaroos have to do with zeppelin pilots anyway Hilarious. The strange thing to me is, while you are in this state, the connection makes perfect sense. It's only when you snap out does it become inconsistent. Maybe it has to do with certain portions of the brain relaxing before others.

midnightmonster 19y ago
What you describe is more like my experience when half-awoken in the middle of the night. That's when I'll hold adamantly to some complete bit of nonsense ("Really, this does make sense!") while my wife smiles and nods and tries to get me to turn over and go back to sleep. I often remember the event afterward and can't think why I thought I was making sense. In contrast, when I'm falling asleep (and I assumed this was more what the parent was talking about) I'll suddenly realize that there have been one or several strands of nonsense running in my head for what seems like some time. Sometimes the strands seemed like reasonable trains of thought until I attended to them, sometimes they're just imagined dialog of other people (experienced as mentally overheard instead of consciously imagined) or something else. But to become aware of them (and to be aware of them as nonsense) in the falling asleep case isn't to snap out of the state. The state continues often until I'm asleep, and a kind of metacognition appears over it with the realization that my thoughts don't make any sense and drawing the conclusion that I'm in the process of falling asleep. Except the original state is probably better described as semi- or sub-cognition. It's nice to know a couple other people have similar experiences. I'm not aware of any connection in myself between throwing an exception when almost asleep and being mindful of my emotional state and its effects while awake. (Except perhaps the correlation that I'm more mindful generally now than a few years ago, and the going-to-sleep thing might be a last-couple-years phenomenon. I don't remember it for sure before then.) I do find that using programming metaphors (e.g., throwing an exception) for my mental processes is almost always misleading.
- yters 19y ago
  I think this metacognition is starting to bleed over into my dreams:( or :) Also, I don't think it is just nonsense. These strange thoughts seem to have two levels to them. The more syntactic level, i.e. being part of a video game and fighting giants doesn't make any sense. But, it is the intuitive meaning behind these images that does make sense. So, my theory is that I'm not necessarily thinking nonsense, but thinking on a different level. A level switch causes that meta-cognition of "nonsense" to occur. This is similar to reading good literature. Often, great books make use of complex imagery that doesn't make much literal sense. But, focussing on the intuitive impressions that the images bring seems to convey some kind of deeper meaning.

kleevr 19y ago

Reminds me of a zen method. As you're waiting to fall asleep you slowly count up. Each time you get to five, go back to one. If you're lucky you might remember catching yourself at 6 or 12 a couple times, but usually your just out! (It takes a little practice.) A little glossolalia will fork your language processing and symbolic thought, and help turn the volume down on the pesky internal monologue.

caudicus 19y ago

Listen to this episode of Radio Lab - http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2007/05/25 http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2007/05/25 - it talks how, in our dreams, we start to do free association of events that have occurred during the day to make sense of them. Pretty interesting stuff.

nazgulnarsil 19y ago
intelligence is famously hard to define but I think a big chunk of it is associating ideas. most people have set pathways, x associates with y and so on. the more intelligent cross-reference more things. while you are asleep your brain plays with associations. I would bet that someone who didn't dream would do substantially worse on cognitive tests of all sorts.
- yters 19y ago
  The less sleep I have the more narrow minded I become.

icky 19y ago

I've had dreams where I was in my room and it was completely realistic, but for some minor detail, such as a digital clock reading " 4:63 am". Often, I will notice the impossibility, even "consciously" within the context of the dream, and then I wake up.