5 ms·

That would make sense if the abuse was between individual actors. Domestic violence victims can, in theory, defend themselves with weapons and legal means. This

by lainga 9y ago

That would make sense if the abuse was between individual actors. Domestic violence victims can, in theory, defend themselves with weapons and legal means. This is (to really stretch the analogy) more "how to hide from drones" for targets of a giant, state-tolerated PMC.

stephenr 9y ago
Sorry, but no. People know that (facebook|their partner) is abusing them (privacy-wise|physically) and they choose to continue the relationship. That's it. No one chooses a relationship with a drone, and to date Facebook haven't found a way to force people to create accounts and continue to use them, at gun-point.
- lainga 9y ago
  I chose to stop the relationship. It probably still has all my information in a shadow account, and might be collecting SMS messages I exchange with people who maintain FB accounts. Facebook doesn't have to force people to do anything -- are you going to cut off contact with everyone you suspect might possibly have an account, to prevent them from creating a shadow account on you?
  - stephenr 9y ago
    The topic is about a browser extension to block them tracking first party activity. That does literally nothing to solve the scenario you described. It's also no coincidence that their SMS harvesting shenanigans are only possible on Android, the poster child for "fuck privacy I want free shit from a giant creepy company". Sure, on some level there should be laws about privacy. But this is fucking America we're talking about - it's practically the third world when it comes to the state of basic protections for citizens.
  - chicob 9y ago
    Facebook tracks people who are not users. That has been a reason for lawsuits. I have taken measures to block Facebook trackers in many sites I visit. So yes, Facebook (among other agents, like Google) is forcing me to follow a course of action that protects my family and myself from intensive data collection, and that many times breaks my browsing and interferes with my work. Forcing HTTPS, blocking cookies, revoking certificates, etc. and then reverting some special cases or creating exceptions on the fly for specific sites I cannot go without is kind of maddening. Stalking isn't a relationship, but it does force victims to take action.
- johnchristopher 9y ago
  > People know that (facebook|their partner) is abusing them (privacy-wise|physically) and they choose to continue the relationship. Really bad comparison there.
  - chicob 9y ago
    Well, I don't mean to compare those two very different situations, but that does happen with victims of domestic violence. Many times they choose to remain in the relationship, and out of fear and desperation, they hope things will change, and they rationalize that whatever is happening is partially their fault or not that serious. And many times that ends with the death of a domestic violence victim.
  - sjwright 9y ago
    You're hopelessly naive if you think that doesn't happen all the time with domestic violence. It's the rule, not the exception.
    - johnchristopher 9y ago
      That's my point. Domestic violence shouldn't be equaled with Facebook's abuses. Causes, consequences, objectives and methods of entrapment are too much different. I have experienced domestic violence first-hand and I cringed when I read the word "choose" when describing the situation.
- crpatino 9y ago
  This is BS and you know it. An abuse victim cannot fail to notice when they receive a punch in the gut, unless they were already unconscious from a series of previous punches. Most FB users have no idea their data is sold down the river. From the ones who are iin the know, a significant majority just found out in the previous week or two. Even in the techie community, who ought to have known better, the amount of people that have spend the last decade in denial is staggering. I'd bet dollars to dougnuts that the percentage of IT people that actually took steps to protect their privacy from social media and/or smartphone platforms is in the single digits. I am willing to believe there are other professions that took this issue more seriously (lawyers and journalists come to mind), but only if said professions do face real world consequences when they fuck up. Even in those cases, I see no evidence that point of a single demography where what you claim is the norm rather than the exception (well, maybe NSA agents and organized crime types do care, but how would we know, anyways?).
- MR4D 9y ago
  Uh, no. You don't need a facebook account for them to know more about you than your parents do. They get data from many other sources. Also, poor analogy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/08/19/98-personal-data-points-that-facebook-uses-to-target-ads-to-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/08... http://adage.com/article/dataworks/mastercard-amex-feed-data-marketers/240800/ http://adage.com/article/dataworks/mastercard-amex-feed-data... https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-doesnt-tell-users-everything-it-really-knows-about-them https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-doesnt-tell-user... https://analytics.facebook.com/features/omni-channel https://analytics.facebook.com/features/omni-channel

by lainga 9y ago

stephenr 9y ago

Sorry, but no. People know that (facebook|their partner) is abusing them (privacy-wise|physically) and they choose to continue the relationship. That's it. No one chooses a relationship with a drone, and to date Facebook haven't found a way to force people to create accounts and continue to use them, at gun-point.

lainga 9y ago
I chose to stop the relationship. It probably still has all my information in a shadow account, and might be collecting SMS messages I exchange with people who maintain FB accounts. Facebook doesn't have to force people to do anything -- are you going to cut off contact with everyone you suspect might possibly have an account, to prevent them from creating a shadow account on you?
- stephenr 9y ago
  The topic is about a browser extension to block them tracking first party activity. That does literally nothing to solve the scenario you described. It's also no coincidence that their SMS harvesting shenanigans are only possible on Android, the poster child for "fuck privacy I want free shit from a giant creepy company". Sure, on some level there should be laws about privacy. But this is fucking America we're talking about - it's practically the third world when it comes to the state of basic protections for citizens.
- chicob 9y ago
  Facebook tracks people who are not users. That has been a reason for lawsuits. I have taken measures to block Facebook trackers in many sites I visit. So yes, Facebook (among other agents, like Google) is forcing me to follow a course of action that protects my family and myself from intensive data collection, and that many times breaks my browsing and interferes with my work. Forcing HTTPS, blocking cookies, revoking certificates, etc. and then reverting some special cases or creating exceptions on the fly for specific sites I cannot go without is kind of maddening. Stalking isn't a relationship, but it does force victims to take action.
johnchristopher 9y ago
> People know that (facebook|their partner) is abusing them (privacy-wise|physically) and they choose to continue the relationship. Really bad comparison there.
- chicob 9y ago
  Well, I don't mean to compare those two very different situations, but that does happen with victims of domestic violence. Many times they choose to remain in the relationship, and out of fear and desperation, they hope things will change, and they rationalize that whatever is happening is partially their fault or not that serious. And many times that ends with the death of a domestic violence victim.
- sjwright 9y ago
  You're hopelessly naive if you think that doesn't happen all the time with domestic violence. It's the rule, not the exception.
  - johnchristopher 9y ago
    That's my point. Domestic violence shouldn't be equaled with Facebook's abuses. Causes, consequences, objectives and methods of entrapment are too much different. I have experienced domestic violence first-hand and I cringed when I read the word "choose" when describing the situation.
crpatino 9y ago
This is BS and you know it. An abuse victim cannot fail to notice when they receive a punch in the gut, unless they were already unconscious from a series of previous punches. Most FB users have no idea their data is sold down the river. From the ones who are iin the know, a significant majority just found out in the previous week or two. Even in the techie community, who ought to have known better, the amount of people that have spend the last decade in denial is staggering. I'd bet dollars to dougnuts that the percentage of IT people that actually took steps to protect their privacy from social media and/or smartphone platforms is in the single digits. I am willing to believe there are other professions that took this issue more seriously (lawyers and journalists come to mind), but only if said professions do face real world consequences when they fuck up. Even in those cases, I see no evidence that point of a single demography where what you claim is the norm rather than the exception (well, maybe NSA agents and organized crime types do care, but how would we know, anyways?).
MR4D 9y ago
Uh, no. You don't need a facebook account for them to know more about you than your parents do. They get data from many other sources. Also, poor analogy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/08/19/98-personal-data-points-that-facebook-uses-to-target-ads-to-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/08... http://adage.com/article/dataworks/mastercard-amex-feed-data-marketers/240800/ http://adage.com/article/dataworks/mastercard-amex-feed-data... https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-doesnt-tell-users-everything-it-really-knows-about-them https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-doesnt-tell-user... https://analytics.facebook.com/features/omni-channel https://analytics.facebook.com/features/omni-channel