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One thing I fight with, internally, is his idea that if you "clean up your room", so to speak, your life will start to have meaning. Because of him, and due to

One thing I fight with, internally, is his idea that if you "clean up your room", so to speak, your life will start to have meaning. Because of him, and due to doing his Self-Authoring program, I followed the steps, took responsibility for my life and changed a lot of things, but the meaning part has yet to hit me. Perhaps it's there, yet buried, I don't know.

rusk 9y ago
I think you've come up against his particular brand of "pragmatic truth". It's true if the end result is good. You may not have found the meaning you thought you would when you started following his teachings, but perhaps you have improved your life. In the pragmatic sense in which Peterson wields the term (echoing William James), this is "truth" and thus "meaning" has been realised.
timmytwotime 9y ago
"Clean your room" is an internalization: how can you judge or even change the world if your room (your life) is a mess? The point is to fix yourself first, then start taking on the world. And do it all in small steps. > the meaning part has yet to hit me You don't feel any sort of pride after getting yourself in order? Are you sure you have yourself in order?
- personlurking 9y ago
  It's perhaps that the 'getting myself in order' part is still in progress, and I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - timmytwotime 9y ago
    The fact that you are looking for it means something.
  - mercer 9y ago
    It's perhaps akin to how when a person goes into therapy, the first step, if practical, is to deal with any substance dependency issues. At least where I live, it's a prerequisite for further therapy (barring acute needs, perhaps). I wouldn't be surprised if this is Peterson's thinking too, although I also wouldn't be surprised if Peterson doesn't know what the 'next step' might be (or is hesitant to recommend it). At least based on my experience, both a good thing and a failing about modern therapy (and if I understand correctly Peterson is primarily a psychologist/therapist) is that it explicitly does not get too much into the stuff beyond a 'direct', pragmatic kind of mental health. For the rest you're encouraged to look elsewhere or cobble something together yourself. (this in contrast to, say, priests/pastors/etc.)
- cholantesh 9y ago
  The average person could do with a lot more introspection, but to suggest that they cannot effect change or note its imperfections without being perfect themselves is silly. >You don't feel any sort of pride after getting yourself in order? Are you sure you have yourself in order? alt: "You didn't feel touched by Jesus/the holy spirit because you didn't reach out with full sincerity."
  - timmytwotime 9y ago
    > to suggest that they cannot effect change or note its imperfections without being perfect themselves is silly. It's not the idea of perfection, but the idea of being able to successfully make changes at a small level and slowly and increasingly make more profound changes in your life. There's a great deal of arrogance/idealism to believe you can jump on the bridge and command a ship. > alt: "You didn't feel touched by Jesus/the holy spirit because you didn't reach out with full sincerity." Now you're just attacking the strawman.

rusk 9y ago

I think you've come up against his particular brand of "pragmatic truth". It's true if the end result is good. You may not have found the meaning you thought you would when you started following his teachings, but perhaps you have improved your life. In the pragmatic sense in which Peterson wields the term (echoing William James), this is "truth" and thus "meaning" has been realised.

timmytwotime 9y ago

"Clean your room" is an internalization: how can you judge or even change the world if your room (your life) is a mess? The point is to fix yourself first, then start taking on the world. And do it all in small steps. > the meaning part has yet to hit me You don't feel any sort of pride after getting yourself in order? Are you sure you have yourself in order?

personlurking 9y ago
It's perhaps that the 'getting myself in order' part is still in progress, and I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- timmytwotime 9y ago
  The fact that you are looking for it means something.
- mercer 9y ago
  It's perhaps akin to how when a person goes into therapy, the first step, if practical, is to deal with any substance dependency issues. At least where I live, it's a prerequisite for further therapy (barring acute needs, perhaps). I wouldn't be surprised if this is Peterson's thinking too, although I also wouldn't be surprised if Peterson doesn't know what the 'next step' might be (or is hesitant to recommend it). At least based on my experience, both a good thing and a failing about modern therapy (and if I understand correctly Peterson is primarily a psychologist/therapist) is that it explicitly does not get too much into the stuff beyond a 'direct', pragmatic kind of mental health. For the rest you're encouraged to look elsewhere or cobble something together yourself. (this in contrast to, say, priests/pastors/etc.)
cholantesh 9y ago
The average person could do with a lot more introspection, but to suggest that they cannot effect change or note its imperfections without being perfect themselves is silly. >You don't feel any sort of pride after getting yourself in order? Are you sure you have yourself in order? alt: "You didn't feel touched by Jesus/the holy spirit because you didn't reach out with full sincerity."
- timmytwotime 9y ago
  > to suggest that they cannot effect change or note its imperfections without being perfect themselves is silly. It's not the idea of perfection, but the idea of being able to successfully make changes at a small level and slowly and increasingly make more profound changes in your life. There's a great deal of arrogance/idealism to believe you can jump on the bridge and command a ship. > alt: "You didn't feel touched by Jesus/the holy spirit because you didn't reach out with full sincerity." Now you're just attacking the strawman.