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It's fine if you want to defend monero's technology, but attacking the researchers credibility because of their association with a competing project? That's som

by vzcx 9y ago

It's fine if you want to defend monero's technology, but attacking the researchers credibility because of their association with a competing project? That's some weak sauce in my opinion. One side is actually doing the work and publishing attacks, even if they are against zcash (shielding/deshielding). The other has some questionable twitter conversations about a hypothetical backdoor. Zcash zk-snarks are backdoored? Proof of concept or GTFO is the law of the land, my dude.

throwawaylolx 9y ago
Oh, and I forgot to mention they were also sponsored by DARPA. You can pretend these are all irrelevant arguments and wait for your proof, but the reality is that reasonable doubt and ad hominem are sometimes appropriate, especially when dealing with privacy. It's on them to prove their trusted setup can be trusted, and everything they've done is antithetic to trust.
- the_stc 9y ago
  Trusted setup only compromises the supply integrity not privacy. I am not a fan of Zooko or the Green comments on backdoors and LE but do not misrepresent trusted setup.
  - throwawaylolx 9y ago
    >only compromises the supply integrity Conveniently, it's impossible to audit whether more coins are being minted right now to add to the developer tax already imposed on block rewards. Don't think I misrepresented trusted setup--only warning others about the reputation of Zcash. Anonymity for some can be a critical issue, so I don't think everyone can afford to wait for "proof of backdoor" before making their decision.
    - nootropicat 9y ago
      Deanonymizing zcash's shielded transactions requires breaking the preimage resistance of sha256.
      - ianmiers 9y ago
        Technically, you could also break the encryption used in the memo field. But thats bog standard cryptography
  - ianmiers 9y ago
    By the way, the backdoor comments are taken out of context in a very inaccurate way. For Zooko's, literally the next tweet explains that he means for transfers in and out of fiat. "And by the way, I think we can successfully make Zcash too traceable for criminals like WannaCry, but still completely private & fungible. … … At least for as long as criminals want to cash out to fiat (years? decades?). … "[0] Since conversions to fiat are done via exchanges, which are regulated, it's pretty simple. This applies to Monero,Dash, etc. Matt's, which he has pointed out before[0], was a point that it was possible, which is true for any system. If you follow the general debate on adding backdoors to encryption, you'll know he and almost all cryptographers are completely against them. Its fine not to be a fan of them or think people should never admit even the conceptual possibility of limitations on privacy but neither quote was endorsing backdoors. [0] https://twitter.com/zooko/status/863202964416077824 https://twitter.com/zooko/status/863202964416077824 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15370744 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15370744
    - throwawaylolx 9y ago
      >Since conversions to fiat are done via exchanges, which are regulated, it's pretty simple. There are plenty of decentralized exchanges (Bisq supports Monero) and OTC trading websites such as LocalMonero. It would make no sense for a criminal to cash out using a centralized exchange that likely requires KYC?

by vzcx 9y ago

throwawaylolx 9y ago

Oh, and I forgot to mention they were also sponsored by DARPA. You can pretend these are all irrelevant arguments and wait for your proof, but the reality is that reasonable doubt and ad hominem are sometimes appropriate, especially when dealing with privacy. It's on them to prove their trusted setup can be trusted, and everything they've done is antithetic to trust.

the_stc 9y ago
Trusted setup only compromises the supply integrity not privacy. I am not a fan of Zooko or the Green comments on backdoors and LE but do not misrepresent trusted setup.
- throwawaylolx 9y ago
  >only compromises the supply integrity Conveniently, it's impossible to audit whether more coins are being minted right now to add to the developer tax already imposed on block rewards. Don't think I misrepresented trusted setup--only warning others about the reputation of Zcash. Anonymity for some can be a critical issue, so I don't think everyone can afford to wait for "proof of backdoor" before making their decision.
  - nootropicat 9y ago
    Deanonymizing zcash's shielded transactions requires breaking the preimage resistance of sha256.
    - ianmiers 9y ago
      Technically, you could also break the encryption used in the memo field. But thats bog standard cryptography
- ianmiers 9y ago
  By the way, the backdoor comments are taken out of context in a very inaccurate way. For Zooko's, literally the next tweet explains that he means for transfers in and out of fiat. "And by the way, I think we can successfully make Zcash too traceable for criminals like WannaCry, but still completely private & fungible. … … At least for as long as criminals want to cash out to fiat (years? decades?). … "[0] Since conversions to fiat are done via exchanges, which are regulated, it's pretty simple. This applies to Monero,Dash, etc. Matt's, which he has pointed out before[0], was a point that it was possible, which is true for any system. If you follow the general debate on adding backdoors to encryption, you'll know he and almost all cryptographers are completely against them. Its fine not to be a fan of them or think people should never admit even the conceptual possibility of limitations on privacy but neither quote was endorsing backdoors. [0] https://twitter.com/zooko/status/863202964416077824 https://twitter.com/zooko/status/863202964416077824 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15370744 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15370744
  - throwawaylolx 9y ago
    >Since conversions to fiat are done via exchanges, which are regulated, it's pretty simple. There are plenty of decentralized exchanges (Bisq supports Monero) and OTC trading websites such as LocalMonero. It would make no sense for a criminal to cash out using a centralized exchange that likely requires KYC?