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Very Easy solution: Classify this type of meat manufacturing business as highly polluting and TAX it a lot until they become clean and green, ONLY then lower ta

by readhn 9y ago

Very Easy solution: Classify this type of meat manufacturing business as highly polluting and TAX it a lot until they become clean and green, ONLY then lower taxes. Yes short term it will increase meat prices, so what? Folks will be forced to eat more veggies which is a good thing.

moate 9y ago
Oh man, you had a great point until you went off and decided to become a self-righteous douche at the end there. Just couldn't stick the dismount... To your point: I think the better mechanism isn't taxation, but regulation/fines. And there was regulation in place, but one of the points of the articles is that government officials in these areas 1- tend to be controlled by these massive industries and 2- push legislation to gut the regulations in the interest of "job creation" (read- increased corporate profits)
- readhn 9y ago
  Fines do not work. Look at the banking sector: HSBC, JP etc. they get slapped with fines all the time but continue business as usual. Heavy taxation is a very quick way to make these types of socially and environmentally polluting business to change or to go away all together.
  - moate 9y ago
    So we don't want to punish the well run farms that don't pollute. But you can't "tax" only the offenders, because that's just...a fine. It's a punitive financial incentive when you pollute, that's regulation and fines. You can make the fines extreme so that people won't ignore them, but they're still not taxes. I think we're just arguing semantics over what the difference between a fine and a tax are.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    Fines do work, but they have to hurt. If people only got fined $1.00 for speeding rather than the usual $300, there'd be a hell of a lot more speeders. With the banks and investment institutions, the fines are typically only a small percentage of what the net of the move was. ($1.00 vs $300). Of course fines, only work so much. People still used drugs during the 80s and 90s when punishment was over the top (and still is).
    - HillaryBriss 9y ago
      it's also important to consider the probability of actually being fined. if the fine for using a freeway's high occupancy vehicle lane without any passengers in your car is over $350 but the police rarely ticket violators, you get Los Angeles.

by readhn 9y ago

moate 9y ago

Oh man, you had a great point until you went off and decided to become a self-righteous douche at the end there. Just couldn't stick the dismount... To your point: I think the better mechanism isn't taxation, but regulation/fines. And there was regulation in place, but one of the points of the articles is that government officials in these areas 1- tend to be controlled by these massive industries and 2- push legislation to gut the regulations in the interest of "job creation" (read- increased corporate profits)

readhn 9y ago
Fines do not work. Look at the banking sector: HSBC, JP etc. they get slapped with fines all the time but continue business as usual. Heavy taxation is a very quick way to make these types of socially and environmentally polluting business to change or to go away all together.
- moate 9y ago
  So we don't want to punish the well run farms that don't pollute. But you can't "tax" only the offenders, because that's just...a fine. It's a punitive financial incentive when you pollute, that's regulation and fines. You can make the fines extreme so that people won't ignore them, but they're still not taxes. I think we're just arguing semantics over what the difference between a fine and a tax are.
- Clubber 9y ago
  Fines do work, but they have to hurt. If people only got fined $1.00 for speeding rather than the usual $300, there'd be a hell of a lot more speeders. With the banks and investment institutions, the fines are typically only a small percentage of what the net of the move was. ($1.00 vs $300). Of course fines, only work so much. People still used drugs during the 80s and 90s when punishment was over the top (and still is).
  - HillaryBriss 9y ago
    it's also important to consider the probability of actually being fined. if the fine for using a freeway's high occupancy vehicle lane without any passengers in your car is over $350 but the police rarely ticket violators, you get Los Angeles.