8 ms·

And if you complain that Krita lacks photo manipulation features, you're told "Of course, because Krita is only targeted at illustrators!" The open source evang

And if you complain that Krita lacks photo manipulation features, you're told "Of course, because Krita is only targeted at illustrators!" The open source evangelists always have a dodge.

zzzcpan 9y ago
Inkscape, mypaint and gimp is pretty much all there is to use professionally on linux. And they complement each other surprisingly well. Inkscape is the main workhorse, mypaint is for sketches and gimp is to prepare some photos and raster images to import into inkscape (you can't do a lot in gimp).
- slantyyz 9y ago
  It's been a while since I've used Inkscape to import .ai files, but does Inkscape still have a tendency to mangle them when you try to import them? If you're moving from one platform to another, you want legacy files to import perfectly, especially when you don't have time to convert old Illustrator assets into svg files. On Mac/Windows at least, Affinity Designer was the first app around $50 or under that didn't mangle any of the .ai files I threw at it.
  - zzzcpan 9y ago
    Yes, you still need to convert to svg for the best result. These things will always be fragile.
lovelearning 9y ago
What's with the entitlement here? These are people sacrificing their time and going largely unpaid (AFAIK) for their efforts. I for one am happy and grateful that these "dodgy" open source evangelists exist and offer us all a choice for free. If I have a subjective usability problem with their software, far more constructive to take the effort to try and fix it myself than complain like a diva.
- gilrain 9y ago
  The "entitlement" is from people who are frustrated that the open source software movement lacks such a fundamental piece of the desktop software puzzle. The confrontation comes from the fact that one side insists the software is there (GIMP), whereas the other side view them as disconnected from reality since its use in industry rounds to 0%.
  - lovelearning 9y ago
    I don't see why perceived usage share in industry should motivate dissing open source devs. GIMP has a user base and fans who obviously think it's good enough for their needs. If the professionals in the industry and their employers have a need for an all-in-one free software that can do everything - image editing, illustrations, maybe throw in 3D and animations while we are at it - then the industry should contribute towards building it. All the building blocks are available, thanks to those dodgy open source devs.
    - Karunamon 9y ago
      What can be and what is are two different things. GIMP is not a serious competitor to Photoshop, full stop. So long as there is no serious competitor to Photoshop, that's a huge swath of the professional world (and much of the non-professional) that won't ever give Linux the time of day. There's a reason that Photoshop is teetering dangerously close to being a genercised trademark! And I think the attitude comes in when GIMP is ignorantly held up as if it were a serious competitor. It isn't. It's something else entirely. It might be good enough for people to make memes for internet shitposting, but between the missing features and the alien UI (to the point where a massive reskin [1] was around for a while), it's never going to be used in industry. If the GIMP devs want to continue down this path, more power to 'em, I just want the people claiming that it's a Photoshop competitor to educate themselves :) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMPshop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMPshop
      - lovelearning 9y ago
        This thread seems to be full of people making baseless assumptions about GIMP that I don't see the GIMP devs themselves make or any open source enthusiast make. Who here is claiming GIMP is a serious competitor to Photoshop, or even a competitor at all? Even the GIMP team doesn't (https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#are-you-trying-to-develop-a-photoshop-killer-app https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#are-you-trying-to-dev...). Or that GIMP is targeting graphics professionals or graphics industry? Don't think so... "We do, however, acknowledge the fact that people will treat GIMP as Photoshop replacement no matter what we tell them, and that’s all right with us. You own this software, it’s up to you to decide how you make use of it." It is what it is. A tool. That happens to be free and is good enough for some. As somebody above said, it's like complaining why emacs / kate / geany or whatever editor can't do something that visual studio can. If the industry wants a serious competitor to Photoshop, time for them to start building it anew or taking existing free tools nearer to that goal or funding open source devs to do it for them. Complaining and ranting against open source devs who have zero obligations to the industry is not going to achieve anything.
callahad 9y ago
And that's a completely legitimate response. Krita is targeted at artists and illustrators, just like any other specialized tool. People don't look at Vim and complain that lacks desktop publishing features, despite novelists and programmers both needing to manipulate text. The original complaint regarded tools for artists, and that's Krita. For photographers, there's DarkTable (https://www.darktable.org/ https://www.darktable.org/), RawTherapee (http://www.rawtherapee.com/ http://www.rawtherapee.com/), and many others. For my modest needs, I find DigiKam (and occasionally The GIMP) adequate, though I am envious of proprietary tools.
- gilrain 9y ago
  And when we complain about usability issues and lack of features in those programs (such as GIMP!), we're told that there are lots of open source alternatives; for instance, look how slick Krita is! And thus the cyclical debate continues for another turn while a competitive raster editor remains unavailable in the open source ecosystem.
  - prokoudine 9y ago
    No, when you complain about usability issues in GIMP to _me_, I actually listen and make notes. Some of these notes end up in the bug tracker. But not, and I repeat -- not when complaints are made in demanding and offensive tone, without providing useful feedback.
    - gilrain 9y ago
      If you discard feedback based on tone, you will very obviously bias yourself toward only accepting positive or positive-leaning feedback. I'm sure you can see how that would seriously hinder software quality in the long run. And, indeed, we can see that it has in the case of GIMP.
      - prokoudine 9y ago
        You kinda missed the part where I mention tone _and_ lack of useful feedback.

And if you complain that Krita lacks photo manipulation features, you're told "Of course, because Krita is only targeted at illustrators!" The open source evangelists always have a dodge.

zzzcpan 9y ago

Inkscape, mypaint and gimp is pretty much all there is to use professionally on linux. And they complement each other surprisingly well. Inkscape is the main workhorse, mypaint is for sketches and gimp is to prepare some photos and raster images to import into inkscape (you can't do a lot in gimp).

slantyyz 9y ago
It's been a while since I've used Inkscape to import .ai files, but does Inkscape still have a tendency to mangle them when you try to import them? If you're moving from one platform to another, you want legacy files to import perfectly, especially when you don't have time to convert old Illustrator assets into svg files. On Mac/Windows at least, Affinity Designer was the first app around $50 or under that didn't mangle any of the .ai files I threw at it.
- zzzcpan 9y ago
  Yes, you still need to convert to svg for the best result. These things will always be fragile.

lovelearning 9y ago

What's with the entitlement here? These are people sacrificing their time and going largely unpaid (AFAIK) for their efforts. I for one am happy and grateful that these "dodgy" open source evangelists exist and offer us all a choice for free. If I have a subjective usability problem with their software, far more constructive to take the effort to try and fix it myself than complain like a diva.

gilrain 9y ago
The "entitlement" is from people who are frustrated that the open source software movement lacks such a fundamental piece of the desktop software puzzle. The confrontation comes from the fact that one side insists the software is there (GIMP), whereas the other side view them as disconnected from reality since its use in industry rounds to 0%.
- lovelearning 9y ago
  I don't see why perceived usage share in industry should motivate dissing open source devs. GIMP has a user base and fans who obviously think it's good enough for their needs. If the professionals in the industry and their employers have a need for an all-in-one free software that can do everything - image editing, illustrations, maybe throw in 3D and animations while we are at it - then the industry should contribute towards building it. All the building blocks are available, thanks to those dodgy open source devs.
  - Karunamon 9y ago
    What can be and what is are two different things. GIMP is not a serious competitor to Photoshop, full stop. So long as there is no serious competitor to Photoshop, that's a huge swath of the professional world (and much of the non-professional) that won't ever give Linux the time of day. There's a reason that Photoshop is teetering dangerously close to being a genercised trademark! And I think the attitude comes in when GIMP is ignorantly held up as if it were a serious competitor. It isn't. It's something else entirely. It might be good enough for people to make memes for internet shitposting, but between the missing features and the alien UI (to the point where a massive reskin [1] was around for a while), it's never going to be used in industry. If the GIMP devs want to continue down this path, more power to 'em, I just want the people claiming that it's a Photoshop competitor to educate themselves :) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMPshop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMPshop
    - lovelearning 9y ago
      This thread seems to be full of people making baseless assumptions about GIMP that I don't see the GIMP devs themselves make or any open source enthusiast make. Who here is claiming GIMP is a serious competitor to Photoshop, or even a competitor at all? Even the GIMP team doesn't (https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#are-you-trying-to-develop-a-photoshop-killer-app https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#are-you-trying-to-dev...). Or that GIMP is targeting graphics professionals or graphics industry? Don't think so... "We do, however, acknowledge the fact that people will treat GIMP as Photoshop replacement no matter what we tell them, and that’s all right with us. You own this software, it’s up to you to decide how you make use of it." It is what it is. A tool. That happens to be free and is good enough for some. As somebody above said, it's like complaining why emacs / kate / geany or whatever editor can't do something that visual studio can. If the industry wants a serious competitor to Photoshop, time for them to start building it anew or taking existing free tools nearer to that goal or funding open source devs to do it for them. Complaining and ranting against open source devs who have zero obligations to the industry is not going to achieve anything.

callahad 9y ago

And that's a completely legitimate response. Krita is targeted at artists and illustrators, just like any other specialized tool. People don't look at Vim and complain that lacks desktop publishing features, despite novelists and programmers both needing to manipulate text. The original complaint regarded tools for artists, and that's Krita. For photographers, there's DarkTable (https://www.darktable.org/ https://www.darktable.org/), RawTherapee (http://www.rawtherapee.com/ http://www.rawtherapee.com/), and many others. For my modest needs, I find DigiKam (and occasionally The GIMP) adequate, though I am envious of proprietary tools.

gilrain 9y ago
And when we complain about usability issues and lack of features in those programs (such as GIMP!), we're told that there are lots of open source alternatives; for instance, look how slick Krita is! And thus the cyclical debate continues for another turn while a competitive raster editor remains unavailable in the open source ecosystem.
- prokoudine 9y ago
  No, when you complain about usability issues in GIMP to _me_, I actually listen and make notes. Some of these notes end up in the bug tracker. But not, and I repeat -- not when complaints are made in demanding and offensive tone, without providing useful feedback.
  - gilrain 9y ago
    If you discard feedback based on tone, you will very obviously bias yourself toward only accepting positive or positive-leaning feedback. I'm sure you can see how that would seriously hinder software quality in the long run. And, indeed, we can see that it has in the case of GIMP.
    - prokoudine 9y ago
      You kinda missed the part where I mention tone _and_ lack of useful feedback.