5 ms·

The Trouble with Leaving Facebook Is That We Like Facebook

42 points by IAmEveryone 9y ago

kitd 9y ago
Soma
singularity2001 9y ago
No we don't
- hashkb 9y ago
  Yeah. It's really obviously terrible. I don't understand the social media fad at all. (I'm 31 and used Facebook at college until they rolled out the news feed which was clearly evil)
saintPirelli 9y ago
"The trouble with losing weight is that we actually like fastfood." Yeah, no shit. It still makes you stupid and fat and the only reason you won't quit is because their marketing and how their product is built is stronger than your will. So you do the wrong thing despite better knowledge.
- sourthyme 9y ago
  I don't know how people can compare eating fast-food to using a social network. Is it really bad for you if you use a social network?
  - ConceptJunkie 9y ago
    It can be, but it doesn't have to be. There are different ways to use it. Fast food is bad for you no matter what, and the only to not be harmed by it is to use it sparingly. However, social networking can be used constructively, and doesn't necessarily need to be kept to a minimum in order to not be harmful.
  - Sileni 9y ago
    Yes. It's been associated with many negative mental health effects. Quick examples, but you can find a lot of studies on it. [0][1] [0] http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180104-is-social-media-bad-for-you-the-evidence-and-the-unknowns http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180104-is-social-media-bad... [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2017/06/30/a-run-down-of-social-medias-effects-on-our-mental-health/#1343e0842e5a https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2017/06/30/a-run-d...
    - scarface74 9y ago
      I have to be very mindful that what people post on FB are the fun times, the vacations, etc. Most people don't post about the drudgery of every day life - work, kids, rinse repeat. It's easy to think everyone else has a more exciting life than I have.
slfnflctd 9y ago
> "That ties in with what scientists call “ambient awareness” — a theory that having access to regular, small, seemingly disconnected bits of information about a person’s life can build stronger social connections, help us feel more bonded and make us happier." I used to keep a list of people I wanted to be able to remember and stay in touch with. On paper. For most of them, I had no phone number, street address, email address, nothing-- only a name, and a desire to have some kind of contact again in the future. I was fairly certain I might never be able to track some of them down again. I don't need the list any longer. Those people are all on Facebook. There is no other single place I can easily reconnect with them, let alone see how they're doing and what they're thinking without having to interrupt them and ask them to set aside time for me. I consider this pretty vital to my quality of life, and have no replacement for it. Does it suck that one corporation owns this experience? Sure, in an abstract sense, but for the time being, there is no alternative. And thus far, there is nothing negative about it for me other than 'data which could potentially maybe be used against me somehow in the future'. I don't really share anything other than neutral/positive moments in my life, and I don't seek out anything other than how my old friends & extended family are doing. So I'm quite okay with it. People have been hating on it and loudly deleting their profiles for many years. If they posted a bunch of stupid crap, I guess I could see why. But that seems to me like a problem which is easily avoided.
- yeutterg 9y ago
  My thoughts exactly. It's great for an awareness of all those people I sort of knew or met once who are from a different city. Facebook's ambient awareness creates enough of a connection that reaching out does not raise the question "who are you again?" Plus, considering I have connections in a bunch of cities throughout the world, I can always ping them for coffee, a tour, or potentially a free stay.
- ConceptJunkie 9y ago
  I'm glad to hear this sentiment. I understand where people are coming from regarding Facebook being a shallow or toxic environment. It can definitely be both. And concerns about the company's practices are legitimate as well. But my experience is like yours. Facebook is also a good way to keep in touch with people, and to participate in online discussions. There are tons of people I've reconnected with, or flat out met, that I would not have without FB.
matz1 9y ago
Maybe is personality thing, most techie, including me, are introvert so the idea of social media is repulsive, even evil. In contrary, to many other people social media is an utility. Like it or not, The next generation society/culture will be influenced much by social media so I either will embrace it or risk being out of touch with society.
- IAmEveryone 9y ago
  I think Facebook is a godsend for introverts. Zuckerberg himself actually seems to be one, himself. As but one example: Facebook allows me to rather passively stay in contact with many people I'd rather not call every week. Post a picture here and there and your mother is far less angry at you for not calling often enough.
  - iamatworknow 9y ago
    Facebook was a gift and a curse for introverts. I signed up for Facebook my freshman year of college, 2005. For someone in a new place who wasn't very good socially, it allowed me to meet all sorts of people at college through chatting online (something I was already very comfortable with thanks to things like AIM and Yahoo messenger). Used to be that you could search for keywords among people at your college, so it was great for meeting people with similar interests. People were much more open online then, be it willingly or just for the fact that having a private account just wasn't an option at the time. But it also became a crutch, and I (and perhaps many others) started to use it as my primary means of meeting and interacting with people. I never did very well developing real world social skills to meet people in person and build up that confidence that college is the perfect environment to foster. Now I'm 30, and also recently moved to a new, unfamiliar place. And while I'm "okay" socially, I feel like had I just shut the damn computer off in college and forced myself to build up that social network in real life, I'd be more comfortable and confident in my abilities to meet cool people in person today.
    - ConceptJunkie 9y ago
      I went college in the 80s, so social networking on the net wasn't a thing. (Well, mostly... I did manage to meet one of my best friends in college chatting on the Vax before I ever met her in person.) I'm definitely an introvert, and not having social networking at that age was probably a good thing for me. I don't feel like I missed anything not having it, but I'm happy to have it now, especially when the people I used to know are scattered very widely geographically.
0xADADA 9y ago
The Trouble with Quitting Smoking is That We Like Smoking.
lambda_lover 9y ago
> Sixty-seven percent of Americans say online communication strengthens their relationships — compared with just 18 percent who say it makes those relationships weaker. If you aren’t on Facebook, you’re missing out on important parts of your friends’ lives — maybe even missing your friends entirely, if they live far from you. I really don't think what people think Facebook does to their relationships actually maps at all to the actual impact of Facebook on their relationships. I'm 22 years old. I graduated from college last year. I think in 2008-2012, Facebook helped me keep in touch with friends because all of my friends posted to it regularly, sharing life events and photographs. My News Feed (back when it was chronological by default) helped me keep up to date with the biggest things in all of my friends' lives. It was nice. Notifications told me when somebody interacted my content, and I could take the time to read every comment someone made on one of my photos or posts. There were a few ads in a sidebar, which I could mostly ignore. Today (well, two months ago, when I deleted my Facebook account), none of this is true, and Facebook is completely useless because of it. My News Feed regularly hides major posts from me, and throws "suggested content" and ads in my face before I can see anything I care about. My friends never post any more, and when they do, I don't see it because it's a) hidden in the News Feed of garbage and b) might not even be in the News Feed of garbage because Facebook's algorithm doesn't think it's "relevant". Notifications are complete spam, telling me that "X posted something!" and never letting me know when people post on my own photos and posts. Because it's hard to tell when people engage, there's no point in engaging -- nobody will read your comments! I studied abroad Fall semester of my senior year, and when I got home I posted a huge photo album of exciting places I visited. For 6 months, I assumed nobody commented or liked anything because I didn't get any notifications. I checked back on it when I first started thinking about deleting my Facebook, and realized there were dozens of likes and a handful of comments per picture. None of which I knew about. All of these people tried to reach out to me via a comment, asking about my trip, and it looked like I ignored all of them callously because Facebook never told me anything. Facebook was once a useful tool for social interaction, but today I simply keep a list of the two-dozen or so friends I actually want to keep up with. Whenever I have a lazy afternoon or some free time, I consult the list, think about who I've lost touch with, and give them a call. I find that this is a much more rewarding way to interact with the people I love and care about. If you're feeling trapped by Facebook's social graph, just remember that humans interacted for tens of thousands of years without social media, and decades with only phones and letters. You can do the same. Don't feed Facebook's ad engine at the expense of your own social circle. You can do a lot better.
diego_moita 9y ago
The majority of people behave by classical Pavlovian conditioning: they'll get addicted for what gives them immediate pleasure even if it brings them pain, misery and suffering in the long run. That's why we have so much obesity, tobacco, cocaine, opioids and global warming. Facebook will keep thriving because it is to people what cookies were to Ivan Pavlov's dogs: instant gratification. Btw, I closed my FB account 4 years ago.
- IAmEveryone 9y ago
  You obviously don't like Facebook's practices, and neither do I. I wish Facebook would see its users leave in droves, for a privacy-conscious competitor to emerge, for decentralised services to make a comeback, or for regulation to put an end to the dark side of Facebook's business. Which is why I believe it's not constructive to arrogantly ignore the case this article is making. The reasons why people may find Facebook useful seem compelling: staying in touch with people you don't know well enough to see or call regularly; staying "on the radar" when, for example, someone from your extended circle of friends goes through their contact list to invite people to their party, etc. Even if you're right and there are some reasons why these mechanisms actually are detrimental to our social lives, I think the article's arguments are far more intuitive, and closer to what people actually believe. If you want to convince them to leave Facebook, it would be far more effective to start with an understanding of their point of view, instead of insulting them as animals governed by lesser instincts.
  - diego_moita 9y ago
    Forgive me but, because I don't feel the effects of its influence, I do not care that much about its existence. (Remember: I don't use FB). Yes, I do have a moral objection to its practices, but not really an immediate repulse. As per your last argument: I am not "insulting them". If it were an "insult", it would be for everyone including me. I also go through considerable effort to avoid obesity and would also be addicted to drugs if I tried them. From a biological perspective we are all animals and as such we are all governed by "instincts", by the biological needs every animal has. Regardless of what they tell you in your biblical studies, human biology is very much like most of other mammals. Their "point of view" is just their biological need for little bursts of dopamine.
Libturd 9y ago
"fivethirtyeight" is a joke rag
DrScump 9y ago
If you just can’t quit Facebook, it could be because you have decided that the benefits outweigh the risks I would argue that most users don't know or understand the risks. For most, it's not a fully-informed consent.

42 points by IAmEveryone 9y ago

kitd 9y ago

Soma

singularity2001 9y ago

No we don't

hashkb 9y ago
Yeah. It's really obviously terrible. I don't understand the social media fad at all. (I'm 31 and used Facebook at college until they rolled out the news feed which was clearly evil)

saintPirelli 9y ago

"The trouble with losing weight is that we actually like fastfood." Yeah, no shit. It still makes you stupid and fat and the only reason you won't quit is because their marketing and how their product is built is stronger than your will. So you do the wrong thing despite better knowledge.

sourthyme 9y ago
I don't know how people can compare eating fast-food to using a social network. Is it really bad for you if you use a social network?
- ConceptJunkie 9y ago
  It can be, but it doesn't have to be. There are different ways to use it. Fast food is bad for you no matter what, and the only to not be harmed by it is to use it sparingly. However, social networking can be used constructively, and doesn't necessarily need to be kept to a minimum in order to not be harmful.
- Sileni 9y ago
  Yes. It's been associated with many negative mental health effects. Quick examples, but you can find a lot of studies on it. [0][1] [0] http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180104-is-social-media-bad-for-you-the-evidence-and-the-unknowns http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180104-is-social-media-bad... [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2017/06/30/a-run-down-of-social-medias-effects-on-our-mental-health/#1343e0842e5a https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2017/06/30/a-run-d...
  - scarface74 9y ago
    I have to be very mindful that what people post on FB are the fun times, the vacations, etc. Most people don't post about the drudgery of every day life - work, kids, rinse repeat. It's easy to think everyone else has a more exciting life than I have.

slfnflctd 9y ago

> "That ties in with what scientists call “ambient awareness” — a theory that having access to regular, small, seemingly disconnected bits of information about a person’s life can build stronger social connections, help us feel more bonded and make us happier." I used to keep a list of people I wanted to be able to remember and stay in touch with. On paper. For most of them, I had no phone number, street address, email address, nothing-- only a name, and a desire to have some kind of contact again in the future. I was fairly certain I might never be able to track some of them down again. I don't need the list any longer. Those people are all on Facebook. There is no other single place I can easily reconnect with them, let alone see how they're doing and what they're thinking without having to interrupt them and ask them to set aside time for me. I consider this pretty vital to my quality of life, and have no replacement for it. Does it suck that one corporation owns this experience? Sure, in an abstract sense, but for the time being, there is no alternative. And thus far, there is nothing negative about it for me other than 'data which could potentially maybe be used against me somehow in the future'. I don't really share anything other than neutral/positive moments in my life, and I don't seek out anything other than how my old friends & extended family are doing. So I'm quite okay with it. People have been hating on it and loudly deleting their profiles for many years. If they posted a bunch of stupid crap, I guess I could see why. But that seems to me like a problem which is easily avoided.

yeutterg 9y ago
My thoughts exactly. It's great for an awareness of all those people I sort of knew or met once who are from a different city. Facebook's ambient awareness creates enough of a connection that reaching out does not raise the question "who are you again?" Plus, considering I have connections in a bunch of cities throughout the world, I can always ping them for coffee, a tour, or potentially a free stay.
ConceptJunkie 9y ago
I'm glad to hear this sentiment. I understand where people are coming from regarding Facebook being a shallow or toxic environment. It can definitely be both. And concerns about the company's practices are legitimate as well. But my experience is like yours. Facebook is also a good way to keep in touch with people, and to participate in online discussions. There are tons of people I've reconnected with, or flat out met, that I would not have without FB.

matz1 9y ago

Maybe is personality thing, most techie, including me, are introvert so the idea of social media is repulsive, even evil. In contrary, to many other people social media is an utility. Like it or not, The next generation society/culture will be influenced much by social media so I either will embrace it or risk being out of touch with society.

IAmEveryone 9y ago
I think Facebook is a godsend for introverts. Zuckerberg himself actually seems to be one, himself. As but one example: Facebook allows me to rather passively stay in contact with many people I'd rather not call every week. Post a picture here and there and your mother is far less angry at you for not calling often enough.
- iamatworknow 9y ago
  Facebook was a gift and a curse for introverts. I signed up for Facebook my freshman year of college, 2005. For someone in a new place who wasn't very good socially, it allowed me to meet all sorts of people at college through chatting online (something I was already very comfortable with thanks to things like AIM and Yahoo messenger). Used to be that you could search for keywords among people at your college, so it was great for meeting people with similar interests. People were much more open online then, be it willingly or just for the fact that having a private account just wasn't an option at the time. But it also became a crutch, and I (and perhaps many others) started to use it as my primary means of meeting and interacting with people. I never did very well developing real world social skills to meet people in person and build up that confidence that college is the perfect environment to foster. Now I'm 30, and also recently moved to a new, unfamiliar place. And while I'm "okay" socially, I feel like had I just shut the damn computer off in college and forced myself to build up that social network in real life, I'd be more comfortable and confident in my abilities to meet cool people in person today.
  - ConceptJunkie 9y ago
    I went college in the 80s, so social networking on the net wasn't a thing. (Well, mostly... I did manage to meet one of my best friends in college chatting on the Vax before I ever met her in person.) I'm definitely an introvert, and not having social networking at that age was probably a good thing for me. I don't feel like I missed anything not having it, but I'm happy to have it now, especially when the people I used to know are scattered very widely geographically.

0xADADA 9y ago

The Trouble with Quitting Smoking is That We Like Smoking.

lambda_lover 9y ago

> Sixty-seven percent of Americans say online communication strengthens their relationships — compared with just 18 percent who say it makes those relationships weaker. If you aren’t on Facebook, you’re missing out on important parts of your friends’ lives — maybe even missing your friends entirely, if they live far from you. I really don't think what people think Facebook does to their relationships actually maps at all to the actual impact of Facebook on their relationships. I'm 22 years old. I graduated from college last year. I think in 2008-2012, Facebook helped me keep in touch with friends because all of my friends posted to it regularly, sharing life events and photographs. My News Feed (back when it was chronological by default) helped me keep up to date with the biggest things in all of my friends' lives. It was nice. Notifications told me when somebody interacted my content, and I could take the time to read every comment someone made on one of my photos or posts. There were a few ads in a sidebar, which I could mostly ignore. Today (well, two months ago, when I deleted my Facebook account), none of this is true, and Facebook is completely useless because of it. My News Feed regularly hides major posts from me, and throws "suggested content" and ads in my face before I can see anything I care about. My friends never post any more, and when they do, I don't see it because it's a) hidden in the News Feed of garbage and b) might not even be in the News Feed of garbage because Facebook's algorithm doesn't think it's "relevant". Notifications are complete spam, telling me that "X posted something!" and never letting me know when people post on my own photos and posts. Because it's hard to tell when people engage, there's no point in engaging -- nobody will read your comments! I studied abroad Fall semester of my senior year, and when I got home I posted a huge photo album of exciting places I visited. For 6 months, I assumed nobody commented or liked anything because I didn't get any notifications. I checked back on it when I first started thinking about deleting my Facebook, and realized there were dozens of likes and a handful of comments per picture. None of which I knew about. All of these people tried to reach out to me via a comment, asking about my trip, and it looked like I ignored all of them callously because Facebook never told me anything. Facebook was once a useful tool for social interaction, but today I simply keep a list of the two-dozen or so friends I actually want to keep up with. Whenever I have a lazy afternoon or some free time, I consult the list, think about who I've lost touch with, and give them a call. I find that this is a much more rewarding way to interact with the people I love and care about. If you're feeling trapped by Facebook's social graph, just remember that humans interacted for tens of thousands of years without social media, and decades with only phones and letters. You can do the same. Don't feed Facebook's ad engine at the expense of your own social circle. You can do a lot better.

diego_moita 9y ago

The majority of people behave by classical Pavlovian conditioning: they'll get addicted for what gives them immediate pleasure even if it brings them pain, misery and suffering in the long run. That's why we have so much obesity, tobacco, cocaine, opioids and global warming. Facebook will keep thriving because it is to people what cookies were to Ivan Pavlov's dogs: instant gratification. Btw, I closed my FB account 4 years ago.

IAmEveryone 9y ago
You obviously don't like Facebook's practices, and neither do I. I wish Facebook would see its users leave in droves, for a privacy-conscious competitor to emerge, for decentralised services to make a comeback, or for regulation to put an end to the dark side of Facebook's business. Which is why I believe it's not constructive to arrogantly ignore the case this article is making. The reasons why people may find Facebook useful seem compelling: staying in touch with people you don't know well enough to see or call regularly; staying "on the radar" when, for example, someone from your extended circle of friends goes through their contact list to invite people to their party, etc. Even if you're right and there are some reasons why these mechanisms actually are detrimental to our social lives, I think the article's arguments are far more intuitive, and closer to what people actually believe. If you want to convince them to leave Facebook, it would be far more effective to start with an understanding of their point of view, instead of insulting them as animals governed by lesser instincts.
- diego_moita 9y ago
  Forgive me but, because I don't feel the effects of its influence, I do not care that much about its existence. (Remember: I don't use FB). Yes, I do have a moral objection to its practices, but not really an immediate repulse. As per your last argument: I am not "insulting them". If it were an "insult", it would be for everyone including me. I also go through considerable effort to avoid obesity and would also be addicted to drugs if I tried them. From a biological perspective we are all animals and as such we are all governed by "instincts", by the biological needs every animal has. Regardless of what they tell you in your biblical studies, human biology is very much like most of other mammals. Their "point of view" is just their biological need for little bursts of dopamine.

Libturd 9y ago

"fivethirtyeight" is a joke rag

DrScump 9y ago

If you just can’t quit Facebook, it could be because you have decided that the benefits outweigh the risks I would argue that most users don't know or understand the risks. For most, it's not a fully-informed consent.