4 ms·

Yeah. It's even simpler than that. I saw a similar post on HN a few months ago theorizing that Facebook's machine learning algorithms could very plausibly pick

Yeah. It's even simpler than that. I saw a similar post on HN a few months ago theorizing that Facebook's machine learning algorithms could very plausibly pick up that controversy generates activity, and promote controversial topics more and more to the point of optimizing for divisiveness and extremism. And most people here are slowly realizing that it's not just a theory... it's likely already happening. We're on the early years of acknowledging that it's happening. 5-10 years from now, some article will come out about how Facebook has been manipulating our world view for decades and people will link back to these posts and say "Duh, we've known about this for ages". Hey, to the people who work at Facebook, Twitter, Google et al, it's your responsibility to make sure this stuff isn't happening. The company you work for has no path to fix these problems on its own, this stuff needs human supervision and intervention, and hyperawareness of what kind of damage is caused by manipulating people en masse.

arkh 9y ago
It's funny to see businesses who use a lot of PR for diversity of appearance create software which goal is to stiff diversity of thought. People scoffed at China trying to control internet in the early 2000. Now that they're proof it is possible, everyone with an idea for a better future will try to emulate them.
idlewords 9y ago
This is already documented to be the case with YouTube, where the recommendations serve as a radicalization engine. For example, watching videos on vegetarianism will cause YouTube to push you to be vegan. Article (by the same author) here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/opinion/sunday/youtube-politics-radical.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/opinion/sunday/youtube-po...
- walrus01 9y ago
  If YouTube hadn't gone on a fairly extensive program of manually culling Arabic language Islamic state related videos, watching videos on secular Sunni hanafi and hanbali ideology would pretty quickly lead you to hardcore wahabbist Sharia law indoctrination.
  - guelo 9y ago
    Also, I have plenty of friends radicalized by youtube into hardcore islamophobia which they hadn't exhibited before.
    - dvtv75 9y ago
      My father's the same. He'll walk along through town minding his own business, and then see someone he thinks is a Muslim. That's when the shouting begins.
      - exergy 9y ago
        I feel sorry for you. In my experience, there is little you can do to change the mind of such a person, and yet living with them can be constant embarrassment.
    - walrus01 9y ago
      It is really easy for far right media to cherry pick stories like this: http://time.com/5214563/parents-attacked-16-year-old-daughter-who-refused-to-marry-an-older-man-police-say/ http://time.com/5214563/parents-attacked-16-year-old-daughte... I can just as easily find news articles about thousands of white women who are killed by their WASP husbands in the USA, but those are, from the xenophobe perspective, a relatively mundane occurrence.
sametmax 9y ago
The humans in regular medias already do that. You always see more bad news than good on CNN, but I'm pretty sure there are more good things than bad to report.
- walrus01 9y ago
  As a whole USA violent crime rates have been declining steadily in almost every category since the mid 1970s, but increased sensationalism in television news and "if it bleeds, it leads" would have the average person thinking the USA is a much more dangerous place. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/30/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/30/5-facts-abou...
  - taurath 9y ago
    Until it starts going back up due to the sensationalist reporting.
- evan_ 9y ago
  CNN can’t do it on a personalized basis. If Facebook’s AI knows that you hate nothing more than anti-vaxxers, it could choose to show you seemingly-randomly that your great aunt has liked an anti-vax page. I’m not sure if that would ultimately help drive engagement but I’m sure it’s something they’ve studied.
  - sametmax 9y ago
    That's a good point. And it avoids general outrage against big entities or concepts, instead people just fight each other more.
    - ryandrake 9y ago
      Which is ultimately the goal of the folks in charge. The 1% win when they can get 49.5% to think the other 49.5% are ruining everything, and vice versa.
gt_ 9y ago
These biases seem unnecessary to me but some controversial topics are important. HN hosts a lot of controversial conversation. It’s the conspiracy stuff and inherent bias that advertising has toward complacency that seems disturbing.
newnewpdro 9y ago
Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_(1976_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_(1976_film)

arkh 9y ago

It's funny to see businesses who use a lot of PR for diversity of appearance create software which goal is to stiff diversity of thought. People scoffed at China trying to control internet in the early 2000. Now that they're proof it is possible, everyone with an idea for a better future will try to emulate them.

idlewords 9y ago

This is already documented to be the case with YouTube, where the recommendations serve as a radicalization engine. For example, watching videos on vegetarianism will cause YouTube to push you to be vegan. Article (by the same author) here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/opinion/sunday/youtube-politics-radical.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/opinion/sunday/youtube-po...

walrus01 9y ago
If YouTube hadn't gone on a fairly extensive program of manually culling Arabic language Islamic state related videos, watching videos on secular Sunni hanafi and hanbali ideology would pretty quickly lead you to hardcore wahabbist Sharia law indoctrination.
- guelo 9y ago
  Also, I have plenty of friends radicalized by youtube into hardcore islamophobia which they hadn't exhibited before.
  - dvtv75 9y ago
    My father's the same. He'll walk along through town minding his own business, and then see someone he thinks is a Muslim. That's when the shouting begins.
    - exergy 9y ago
      I feel sorry for you. In my experience, there is little you can do to change the mind of such a person, and yet living with them can be constant embarrassment.
  - walrus01 9y ago
    It is really easy for far right media to cherry pick stories like this: http://time.com/5214563/parents-attacked-16-year-old-daughter-who-refused-to-marry-an-older-man-police-say/ http://time.com/5214563/parents-attacked-16-year-old-daughte... I can just as easily find news articles about thousands of white women who are killed by their WASP husbands in the USA, but those are, from the xenophobe perspective, a relatively mundane occurrence.

sametmax 9y ago

The humans in regular medias already do that. You always see more bad news than good on CNN, but I'm pretty sure there are more good things than bad to report.

walrus01 9y ago
As a whole USA violent crime rates have been declining steadily in almost every category since the mid 1970s, but increased sensationalism in television news and "if it bleeds, it leads" would have the average person thinking the USA is a much more dangerous place. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/30/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/30/5-facts-abou...
- taurath 9y ago
  Until it starts going back up due to the sensationalist reporting.
evan_ 9y ago
CNN can’t do it on a personalized basis. If Facebook’s AI knows that you hate nothing more than anti-vaxxers, it could choose to show you seemingly-randomly that your great aunt has liked an anti-vax page. I’m not sure if that would ultimately help drive engagement but I’m sure it’s something they’ve studied.
- sametmax 9y ago
  That's a good point. And it avoids general outrage against big entities or concepts, instead people just fight each other more.
  - ryandrake 9y ago
    Which is ultimately the goal of the folks in charge. The 1% win when they can get 49.5% to think the other 49.5% are ruining everything, and vice versa.

gt_ 9y ago

These biases seem unnecessary to me but some controversial topics are important. HN hosts a lot of controversial conversation. It’s the conspiracy stuff and inherent bias that advertising has toward complacency that seems disturbing.

newnewpdro 9y ago

Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_(1976_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_(1976_film)