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Why are people surprised by all this? I am seriously confused. We know corporations do this. We have protested about Big Pharma, Big Oil, Big Tobacco, etc in th

Why are people surprised by all this? I am seriously confused. We know corporations do this. We have protested about Big Pharma, Big Oil, Big Tobacco, etc in the past. Why are we surprised Big Tech is doing the exact same thing? A lot of these tech companies had revolving doors with the ruling administration of the country for 8 years. They have been deeply embroiled in politics for decades. Ironically, Microsoft circa late 1990s serves as a great lesson when you don't have a revolving door with politicians. In my humble opinion, Shkreli is another example of people who didn't kiss the Godfather's hand. If you got duped by "Don't be evil" or the other "make the world a better place" propaganda by these tech companies, some of the biggest companies this world has ever seen -- then that is on your ignorance. I don't blame Big Tech at all. They will (and should) use the same formula as the other Big Corps for their own self interests. That is what our system requires of them, for better or for worse. We as citizens and consumers should have been vigilant. And to be fair, many on HN have always been vigilant about Big Tech. In my opinion, people have no right to criticize FB or Google today if they did not feel a chill run down their spines after Snowden's leaks or after AaronSw's death.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> people have no right to criticize FB or Google I’ve never understood the phrase “X has no right to Y.” In this context, it’s doubly absurd. Americans have a right. A Constitutional right. The very first one in the Bill of Rights. Users quibbling at Facebook is negotiation (albeit ineffectively done). Voters complaining via political channels is activism, a First Amendment right.
- vowelless 9y ago
  I know you want to quibble part of that one sentence. Let me help you read the full sentence / context so that you can see the deeper point, in case you missed it. If you read the full context, I said "in my opinion ...", and not "according to American constitutional law ...". I am using the word "right" in the "moral" sense of the word, and not the "legal" sense of the word (and you can look up the definition of the word "right" if you prefer). Now, perhaps, you can look at the entire context of that sentence and give address the actual point I was trying to make.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > I am using the word "right" in the "moral" sense of the word Calling legal, Constitutionally-protected political protest immoral because someone "did not feel a chill run down their spines after Snowden's leaks" isn't better. Jumping up to your original comment [1]: > Why are people surprised by all this? It's novel. Specific beats abstract, actual beats hypothetical, relatable beats austere. In Cambridge Analytica we have a specific example of Facebook dropping the ball and creating actual consequences relatable to the average American. Americans love to forgive. We wanted to see Zuckerberg acknowledge the issue, take responsibility and overcorrect. (Think: Tylenol [2].) Instead Zuckerberg disappeared for a few days, apologized like he was making a scripted sales pitch [3] and proceeded to do nothing tangibly evident to the average American. Seeing Facebook lie and cheat so brazenly, in respect of a specific, actual and relatable crisis, was novel for many people. We're also seeing a narrative shift. Facebook once lived in the shadow of Steve Jobs, within Silicon Valley's greater story arc and the myth of the founder. (Think: HBO's Silicon Valley [4].) They were allowed to cut corners as the product of a goofy if influential wunderkid. That's shifting. Shifts surprise. There is no need to throw people under the bus for agreeing later rather than sooner--at the end of the day, agreement is what matters. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16685315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16685315 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tylenol_murders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tylenol_murders [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6DOhioBfyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6DOhioBfyY [4] https://www.hbo.com/silicon-valley https://www.hbo.com/silicon-valley
r00fus 9y ago
> Why are we surprised Big Tech is doing the exact same thing? I think you're conflating FaceBook (including Comcast & Verizon - surprise!) with the rest of "Big Tech". I'd like to hear how Apple, Amazon or Microsoft are part this coalition, or as "evil as Big Oil", etc. Facebook has some poor timing in this news, but lets face it, there're privacy proponents and opponents. Facebook is almost never for privacy. Notice: Comcast and Verizon are almost always on the wrong side of the issue, including this one.
- SlowRobotAhead 9y ago
  I don’t have a professionally calibrated evil-meter... But I’ll tell you why I trust Comcast and Verizon more than Facebook and Gooogle... the former two are completely honest about what they are, the latter two are not. Typed on an iPhone because Apple is right upfront about what it is the do and how they make money.
  - raggi 9y ago
    Clearly you're not aware of e.g. apple maps says collection, iPhone defaults, or the apple maps business model. This rhetoric that Apple is special in this context is just the reality distortion field still rippling.
    - SlowRobotAhead 9y ago
      I’m aware Apple collects data, literally everyone collects. Apple is pretty upfront about their tactics to make money, google and Facebook are not.
    - Twisell 9y ago
      That Apple collect some data and keep it on their server I’m ok with that and I had the choice. But if I learned that Apple gave my data to the company that produce a spyware that some remote friend installed on his computer from a dubious link, of course I would be mad at Apple because something in their security model would be seriously fucked up.
  - 9y ago
cmurf 9y ago
Nation of spectators, not citizens. See the abysmal voter turnout rate nationally for a presidential election and then realize it's even worse for primaries, and still worse for state and local elections. Some people just like complaining while not participating. With different motivations, people are enamored with someone else doing the citizening, or even technology doing it. How many Star Trek episodes involve computer run societies?
- mar77i 9y ago
  One of the writers for Star Trek: The Motion Picture seems to have a thing for computer run societies: Alan Dean Foster. I must say, I find the story most intriguing. The build-up, how human society was gently subjected to its rule. And then there's the recognition of that machine that there is a "problem", and the completely crazy conclusion that it's an alien influence. Absolutely stunning. Though honestly, in direct comparison with Big Tech's failure at winning humanity's trust, Colligatarch has my vote any day.
colordrops 9y ago
Why are you surprised that others don't know things or haven't made the connections you've made?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
trophycase 9y ago
> I don't blame Big Tech at all. They will (and should) use the same formula as the other Big Corps for their own self interests. That is what our system requires of them, for better or for worse. Please stop perpetuating the myth that businesses have to be evil and that they aren't wrong for doing so. There aren't laws of the universe that say businesses need to do whatever it takes to maximize profit. Real people work at these places and as long as these people feel like what they are doing is ok, this will continue to happen. And saying "hey, if you're a Facebook employee you're doing exactly what you should be and I don't blame you" is just going to make this worse. People work there and it's people that need to take responsibility for their own actions.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> people have no right to criticize FB or Google I’ve never understood the phrase “X has no right to Y.” In this context, it’s doubly absurd. Americans have a right. A Constitutional right. The very first one in the Bill of Rights. Users quibbling at Facebook is negotiation (albeit ineffectively done). Voters complaining via political channels is activism, a First Amendment right.

vowelless 9y ago
I know you want to quibble part of that one sentence. Let me help you read the full sentence / context so that you can see the deeper point, in case you missed it. If you read the full context, I said "in my opinion ...", and not "according to American constitutional law ...". I am using the word "right" in the "moral" sense of the word, and not the "legal" sense of the word (and you can look up the definition of the word "right" if you prefer). Now, perhaps, you can look at the entire context of that sentence and give address the actual point I was trying to make.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > I am using the word "right" in the "moral" sense of the word Calling legal, Constitutionally-protected political protest immoral because someone "did not feel a chill run down their spines after Snowden's leaks" isn't better. Jumping up to your original comment [1]: > Why are people surprised by all this? It's novel. Specific beats abstract, actual beats hypothetical, relatable beats austere. In Cambridge Analytica we have a specific example of Facebook dropping the ball and creating actual consequences relatable to the average American. Americans love to forgive. We wanted to see Zuckerberg acknowledge the issue, take responsibility and overcorrect. (Think: Tylenol [2].) Instead Zuckerberg disappeared for a few days, apologized like he was making a scripted sales pitch [3] and proceeded to do nothing tangibly evident to the average American. Seeing Facebook lie and cheat so brazenly, in respect of a specific, actual and relatable crisis, was novel for many people. We're also seeing a narrative shift. Facebook once lived in the shadow of Steve Jobs, within Silicon Valley's greater story arc and the myth of the founder. (Think: HBO's Silicon Valley [4].) They were allowed to cut corners as the product of a goofy if influential wunderkid. That's shifting. Shifts surprise. There is no need to throw people under the bus for agreeing later rather than sooner--at the end of the day, agreement is what matters. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16685315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16685315 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tylenol_murders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tylenol_murders [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6DOhioBfyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6DOhioBfyY [4] https://www.hbo.com/silicon-valley https://www.hbo.com/silicon-valley

r00fus 9y ago

> Why are we surprised Big Tech is doing the exact same thing? I think you're conflating FaceBook (including Comcast & Verizon - surprise!) with the rest of "Big Tech". I'd like to hear how Apple, Amazon or Microsoft are part this coalition, or as "evil as Big Oil", etc. Facebook has some poor timing in this news, but lets face it, there're privacy proponents and opponents. Facebook is almost never for privacy. Notice: Comcast and Verizon are almost always on the wrong side of the issue, including this one.

SlowRobotAhead 9y ago
I don’t have a professionally calibrated evil-meter... But I’ll tell you why I trust Comcast and Verizon more than Facebook and Gooogle... the former two are completely honest about what they are, the latter two are not. Typed on an iPhone because Apple is right upfront about what it is the do and how they make money.
- raggi 9y ago
  Clearly you're not aware of e.g. apple maps says collection, iPhone defaults, or the apple maps business model. This rhetoric that Apple is special in this context is just the reality distortion field still rippling.
  - SlowRobotAhead 9y ago
    I’m aware Apple collects data, literally everyone collects. Apple is pretty upfront about their tactics to make money, google and Facebook are not.
  - Twisell 9y ago
    That Apple collect some data and keep it on their server I’m ok with that and I had the choice. But if I learned that Apple gave my data to the company that produce a spyware that some remote friend installed on his computer from a dubious link, of course I would be mad at Apple because something in their security model would be seriously fucked up.
- 9y ago

cmurf 9y ago

Nation of spectators, not citizens. See the abysmal voter turnout rate nationally for a presidential election and then realize it's even worse for primaries, and still worse for state and local elections. Some people just like complaining while not participating. With different motivations, people are enamored with someone else doing the citizening, or even technology doing it. How many Star Trek episodes involve computer run societies?

mar77i 9y ago
One of the writers for Star Trek: The Motion Picture seems to have a thing for computer run societies: Alan Dean Foster. I must say, I find the story most intriguing. The build-up, how human society was gently subjected to its rule. And then there's the recognition of that machine that there is a "problem", and the completely crazy conclusion that it's an alien influence. Absolutely stunning. Though honestly, in direct comparison with Big Tech's failure at winning humanity's trust, Colligatarch has my vote any day.

colordrops 9y ago

Why are you surprised that others don't know things or haven't made the connections you've made?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

trophycase 9y ago

> I don't blame Big Tech at all. They will (and should) use the same formula as the other Big Corps for their own self interests. That is what our system requires of them, for better or for worse. Please stop perpetuating the myth that businesses have to be evil and that they aren't wrong for doing so. There aren't laws of the universe that say businesses need to do whatever it takes to maximize profit. Real people work at these places and as long as these people feel like what they are doing is ok, this will continue to happen. And saying "hey, if you're a Facebook employee you're doing exactly what you should be and I don't blame you" is just going to make this worse. People work there and it's people that need to take responsibility for their own actions.