3 ms·

I live in SF, having been in the Bay Area for nearly a decade. I like it here and don't feel a desire to move (and I've lived in Texas and Chicago before, so I

I live in SF, having been in the Bay Area for nearly a decade. I like it here and don't feel a desire to move (and I've lived in Texas and Chicago before, so I do know what it's like outside California). I have many friends here, but I don't know if they qualify as "serious roots". Am I "batshit crazy" because I really enjoy the area and want to stay? Respectfully, I would like to suggest that there can be many valid reasons to choose to live in one area or another. It's fine if you don't like SF, and I think it's great that you like where you live, as Chicago is very nice! I like where I live too.

tptacek 9y ago
If your friends are worth paying SFBA mortgages --- with your eyes open to how expensive that is --- to stick around, then, yes, I would call those pretty serious roots. I understand why many people stay. I also have an implicit mental bias towards families, since I'm at an age where most of my close peers have families. I understand how different the equation is for single people in their late 20s and early 30s --- I wasn't any more rational about my personal finances back then (despite having 2 kids) than anyone paying to live in SFBA is now. I think though that a lot people out there should leave; it's not a good deal.
- pcwalton 9y ago
  > I wasn't any more rational about my personal finances back then (despite having 2 kids) than anyone paying to live in SFBA is now. > I think though that a lot people out there should leave; it's not a good deal. That implies that it's never rational to buy in the Bay Area, which is too extreme of a position. I agonized about the decision to become a homeowner out here for something like 5 years. Even now I'm terrified about it. But literally everyone I've talked to agrees that my decision, given my personal circumstances, was a good one. To be clear, it's not the right decision for many, perhaps most people out here, and lots of people here should consider opportunities in other areas! But settling down in the Bay Area can make sense, depending on roots, quality of life, employment situation, personal financial situation, risk tolerance, family obligations, etc. etc. It just depends. This is perhaps getting into the weeds a bit, but most real estate experts don't think that the SF housing market is a bubble. It's probably somewhat overvalued [1] [2], but it's not for example Vancouver, where the wage/housing price imbalance is far worse [3]. [1]: https://www.ubs.com/global/en/wealth-management/chief-investment-office/key-topics/2017/global-real-estate-bubble-index-2017.html https://www.ubs.com/global/en/wealth-management/chief-invest... [2]: https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2018/02/15/san-francisco-not-at-risk-for-a-housing-bubble.html https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2018/02/15/san... [3]: http://time.com/money/5017121/least-affordable-expensive-cities-north-america/ http://time.com/money/5017121/least-affordable-expensive-cit...
- dionidium 9y ago
  It's the "eyes open" part of this that matters. Opinions and personal desires can't be argued with, but my experience is that a lot of people are plainly ignorant of basic facts about a lot of the U.S. If you're staying in the SFBA because you imagine, say, the Midwest to have no culture and no jobs and no future, then I'd propose that you're operating on incorrect information (not just subjective feelings). Software developers are very well paid in the middle of the country. And every medium-sized American city is (more or less) a liberal outpost, with gay bars and music festivals and meetups and tech scenes and Wolfpack Hustles and craft beer and on and on, even in what many imagine to be farm country. Look, I get it, I live in NYC now, because I wanted that experience and I was willing to pay for it. But I'm not here because I think Cincinnati or St. Louis or Nashville are culturally-deficient wastelands with nothing going for them. I think folks are really underestimating what kind of life they could be living by leaving the most expensive parts of the country behind. If you're in your 20s and dating? Sheesh, by all means, pay to experience the wonders of San Francisco or NYC. But if what you want is a family and kids, then you owe it to yourself to know what your options are. They're better and more diverse than you might expect.

tptacek 9y ago

If your friends are worth paying SFBA mortgages --- with your eyes open to how expensive that is --- to stick around, then, yes, I would call those pretty serious roots. I understand why many people stay. I also have an implicit mental bias towards families, since I'm at an age where most of my close peers have families. I understand how different the equation is for single people in their late 20s and early 30s --- I wasn't any more rational about my personal finances back then (despite having 2 kids) than anyone paying to live in SFBA is now. I think though that a lot people out there should leave; it's not a good deal.

pcwalton 9y ago
> I wasn't any more rational about my personal finances back then (despite having 2 kids) than anyone paying to live in SFBA is now. > I think though that a lot people out there should leave; it's not a good deal. That implies that it's never rational to buy in the Bay Area, which is too extreme of a position. I agonized about the decision to become a homeowner out here for something like 5 years. Even now I'm terrified about it. But literally everyone I've talked to agrees that my decision, given my personal circumstances, was a good one. To be clear, it's not the right decision for many, perhaps most people out here, and lots of people here should consider opportunities in other areas! But settling down in the Bay Area can make sense, depending on roots, quality of life, employment situation, personal financial situation, risk tolerance, family obligations, etc. etc. It just depends. This is perhaps getting into the weeds a bit, but most real estate experts don't think that the SF housing market is a bubble. It's probably somewhat overvalued [1] [2], but it's not for example Vancouver, where the wage/housing price imbalance is far worse [3]. [1]: https://www.ubs.com/global/en/wealth-management/chief-investment-office/key-topics/2017/global-real-estate-bubble-index-2017.html https://www.ubs.com/global/en/wealth-management/chief-invest... [2]: https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2018/02/15/san-francisco-not-at-risk-for-a-housing-bubble.html https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2018/02/15/san... [3]: http://time.com/money/5017121/least-affordable-expensive-cities-north-america/ http://time.com/money/5017121/least-affordable-expensive-cit...
dionidium 9y ago
It's the "eyes open" part of this that matters. Opinions and personal desires can't be argued with, but my experience is that a lot of people are plainly ignorant of basic facts about a lot of the U.S. If you're staying in the SFBA because you imagine, say, the Midwest to have no culture and no jobs and no future, then I'd propose that you're operating on incorrect information (not just subjective feelings). Software developers are very well paid in the middle of the country. And every medium-sized American city is (more or less) a liberal outpost, with gay bars and music festivals and meetups and tech scenes and Wolfpack Hustles and craft beer and on and on, even in what many imagine to be farm country. Look, I get it, I live in NYC now, because I wanted that experience and I was willing to pay for it. But I'm not here because I think Cincinnati or St. Louis or Nashville are culturally-deficient wastelands with nothing going for them. I think folks are really underestimating what kind of life they could be living by leaving the most expensive parts of the country behind. If you're in your 20s and dating? Sheesh, by all means, pay to experience the wonders of San Francisco or NYC. But if what you want is a family and kids, then you owe it to yourself to know what your options are. They're better and more diverse than you might expect.