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None of these subs contained "sexual deviants". However braincels and theredpill do but they are still around. Both promote violence.

by sdm 9y ago

neveroffensive 9y ago
> None of these subs contained "sexual deviants". This is the problem with using the government to enforce any kind of grey aria social issue. We all have different definitions for sexual deviants, or reasonable drug use, etc... I'm sure the above comment has some sort of religious background, and genuinely believes people on those subs are deviants.
toomuchtodo 9y ago
I take issue with prostitution in the US, but not for the moral reasons you’d think; it’s under the guise of free will, when someone shouldn’t have to prostitution themselves out of economic necessity (or in a lot of SugarBaby cases, to pay for college or student loans). If we’re going to crack down on exploitation of children in the sex industry, when do we expand that to adults who have no other choice? It’s not free will if your only other option is homelessness or to starve. TL:DR Exploitation must be protected against. Not against sex work in general.
- baddox 9y ago
  Is there anything about your belief that is specific to prostitution? It sounds like you simply oppose wage labor.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    There is something I find particularly revolting about sexual exploitation, having both your dignity and your agency taken from you. My issue is not with wage labor (at least, not for this thread). My concern is where the sex work industry is contorted in certain ways into modern slavery with an unappealing twist.
    - ImSkeptical 9y ago
      I'd agree with you if people were forced into prostitution - and of course what you say does apply correctly to victims of human trafficking who are forced. But I don't think that's always the case. Take a young woman who doesn't like school, doesn't like being a cashier or waitress, wants more money than she can get with the jobs available, etc, and she doesn't really connect promiscuity with indignity in the way that you're implying. Why should this woman be barred from what might be a lucrative and pleasant career just because you and others think it's undignified. I might suffer from dignity issues if I had to work as a birthday clown, but some people enjoy it and that's great because some people want to hire birthday clowns. I think the same logic applies here.
      - toomuchtodo 9y ago
        I think you misunderstand me or I miscommunicated my position. I support the scenario you present.
        jmspring 9y ago
        But you present generalizations and assumptions specific to the scenarios that you describe without facts to back them up. The responder above presents a valid scenario that is no different than 15-20 years ago, college women with proper skills/looks/aptitude, might go work at the few strip clubs/bikini bars in the Bay Area while going to college. I recall, while in college, being surprised by the roommate of a friend (who was a very good student) pulling in what was more than the highest CS grad made out of school when I graduated. Exploitation is one thing, but this immediate jump to everything is exploitation is what leads to things like this particular law getting passed. Generalizations without facts.
    - BadassFractal 9y ago
      As one sugar baby explained to me: I can either work crazy hours for minimum wage at Dairy Queen all month and barely cover rent and food. Or I can have an older guy take me to a Michelin star restaurant and hook up with him, and I'm set for the month in a span of a couple of hours. Have a couple of them on the hook and you're now in the luxury lifestyle territory which most people can only dream of. It's an interesting conversation. We're ok with people doing extremely dangerous and abusive jobs for shitty pay. Miners, people roaming the sewers, people welding beams hundreds of feet in the air. Those are fine. But you give someone head for thousands of dollars so you don't have to flip burgers at McDonald's while you're in college, and suddenly you're a poor victim to stand up for.
- bussiere 9y ago
  There will never a ideal society where everyone can eat and study for free. You're just removing one option for people ... And when you re in trouble the more option you have the better. First get an idealistic society where everyone can eat and have free education then we can discuss about removing this option ... It 's like putting the cart before the horse
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - jadedhacker 9y ago
    On the other hand, if we thought more critically, we'd realize both of those things are possible. In Europe people do have free education. We waste more food than we have hungry people. 1+1=2 ;) Lots of people tell you not to dream big. It's ok to do it and to believe it's achievable.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Dream big. Ignore those who tell you not to. It slows you down from accomplishing what others believe impossible.
- bilbo0s 9y ago
  ??? What about mining, or Walmart third shift stock work by "...adults who have no other choice..."? Do you oppose them?
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    The world is not black and white. Everything is shades of gray. Some exploitation is more heinous than others. If you’re chained to your 9 to 5, it sucks, but it’s not the end of the world. If you’re a UN peacekeeper using candy to lure children into sexual relationships and then abandoning them and your resulting offspring (example taken from real world events), that is psycho/sociopath level exploitation. If you’re a single mom and the landlord is harrasing you for sex to pay the rent, is that okay? Where do you place that on the exploitation scale?
    - bilbo0s 9y ago
      ??? So men or women in the Congo, let's say someplace like Goma... forced by warlords, let's say someone like Nkunda, to go into the mines... or die... is less exploitative than a landlord asking a tenant for sex in your eyes? Question was rhetorical. You obviously have a problem with the sexual dimension of the exploitation, and the people of eastern Congo don't face the choice of going into the mines or dying. It's Nkunda... he offed them anyway, but they got to live a little longer if they went into the mines.
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      >If you’re a single mom and the landlord is harrasing you for sex to pay the rent, is that okay? Where do you place that on the exploitation scale? No one should be harassed. I would rather the woman have the option of selling sex in a clean work environment with healthcare and some say in who she sells to than having to choose between sleeping with her landlord or being homeless.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - ImSkeptical 9y ago
- CryptoPunk 9y ago
  >>when do we expand that to adults who have no other choice? It’s not free will if your only other option is homelessness or to starve. But depriving them of the option of providing sexual services for pay is not protecting them. The alternative, as you point out, is homelessness or to starve, and they would only choose the option of prostitution when they perceive it as less undesirable than these outcomes. So you'd be forcing people into circumstances that they perceive as worse than prostitution, since in every other case, they would not be choosing prostitution anyway.
ryanmarsh 9y ago
theredpill promotes violence? I've lurked long enough to wonder why people say that. I'm sure you can cherry pick some comments but to say the sub promotes violence? It just doesn't stand up to real life. Most of the subs that people say horrible things about I go seek out to find out the real story and find out the mods might have their work cut out for them but they work hard to stay in the community guidelines. A thankless task for sure.
- BadassFractal 9y ago
  The worst examples of theredpill are very similar to the worst examples of modern radical feminism. The whole "men/white people must die" contingent you see on tumblr. If you can ignore them and still take feminism seriously, you can ignore the crazies on TRP as well. Let's relax with the double standard.
  - stagbeetle 9y ago
    Hush now, all of you. This isn't one of the per-approved topics you can discuss. Lest yee fancy the wrath of mang.
  - jadedhacker 9y ago
    The reason why people don't take Tumblr seriously is because white males like myself are a socially dominant and often armed plurality of the country. It's also kind of farcical to think of women eliminating men, society would dissolve in a generation, so it's easy to regard this kind of talk as simply sublimated angst that is an exaggerated response to real concerns. However, when this kind of talk comes from the socially dominant and aforementioned armed folk, it is much more of a serious matter simply because we have a history of actually doing the kinds of violent, enslaving, and oppressive things we claim we'll do. There's the asymmetry.
    - cup-of-tea 9y ago
      > It's also kind of farcical to think of women eliminating men If you actually scratch beneath the surface of TRP you'll see that the concern is not "women eliminating men" but men elminating other men and women being complicit in that.
xkcd-sucks 9y ago
Of course they did-- Prostitutes, johns and pimps are sex criminals, just like pedophiles. Providing a platform for sex criminals is harmful to Society.
- 3131s 9y ago
  Huh, are you really this dense? Yes, they're criminals, because sex work is currently illegal (in the US at least). If it were not illegal, they would no longer be criminals. So how about we legalize it, then they won't be "sex criminals", and then you can stop crying about how your ideal authoritarian "Society" is crumbling because people are free to engage in consensual sex.
cup-of-tea 9y ago
I'm sure every sub contains "sexual deviants". You probably stood next to one at the bus stop the other day too! I don't know what braincels is but saying TRP promotes violence is a straight up lie.
AckSyn 9y ago
You're sadly misinformed as TRP doesn't promote violence one bit.
- erispoe 9y ago
  theredpill is built around helping men trick women into having sex with them when they otherwise would not. That's sexual violence by definition.
  - pritishc 9y ago
    That's PUA, not TRP. TRP is built around helping a man survive and get about in today's world. Sex is one part, often talked about, but one part. One of the differences is that PUA doesn't help men get over the NiceGuy mentality. But if you want to be pedantic, sure..
  - esarbe 9y ago
    I disagree. That's seduction, by definition. After all, you are figuring out how to behave so that a member of the other sex wants to have intercourse with you.
  - alien_at_work 9y ago
    Flagged. This comment is so awful, ignorant and offensive (especially to actual victims of sexual violence!). Wow, how on earth does someone come up with such a ludicrus, insane oppinion. Please learn what words (e.g. violence) mean before attempting to use them in conversation.

None of these subs contained "sexual deviants". However braincels and theredpill do but they are still around. Both promote violence.

by sdm 9y ago

None of these subs contained "sexual deviants". However braincels and theredpill do but they are still around. Both promote violence.

neveroffensive 9y ago

> None of these subs contained "sexual deviants". This is the problem with using the government to enforce any kind of grey aria social issue. We all have different definitions for sexual deviants, or reasonable drug use, etc... I'm sure the above comment has some sort of religious background, and genuinely believes people on those subs are deviants.

toomuchtodo 9y ago

I take issue with prostitution in the US, but not for the moral reasons you’d think; it’s under the guise of free will, when someone shouldn’t have to prostitution themselves out of economic necessity (or in a lot of SugarBaby cases, to pay for college or student loans). If we’re going to crack down on exploitation of children in the sex industry, when do we expand that to adults who have no other choice? It’s not free will if your only other option is homelessness or to starve. TL:DR Exploitation must be protected against. Not against sex work in general.

baddox 9y ago
Is there anything about your belief that is specific to prostitution? It sounds like you simply oppose wage labor.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  There is something I find particularly revolting about sexual exploitation, having both your dignity and your agency taken from you. My issue is not with wage labor (at least, not for this thread). My concern is where the sex work industry is contorted in certain ways into modern slavery with an unappealing twist.
  - ImSkeptical 9y ago
    I'd agree with you if people were forced into prostitution - and of course what you say does apply correctly to victims of human trafficking who are forced. But I don't think that's always the case. Take a young woman who doesn't like school, doesn't like being a cashier or waitress, wants more money than she can get with the jobs available, etc, and she doesn't really connect promiscuity with indignity in the way that you're implying. Why should this woman be barred from what might be a lucrative and pleasant career just because you and others think it's undignified. I might suffer from dignity issues if I had to work as a birthday clown, but some people enjoy it and that's great because some people want to hire birthday clowns. I think the same logic applies here.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      I think you misunderstand me or I miscommunicated my position. I support the scenario you present.
      - jmspring 9y ago
        But you present generalizations and assumptions specific to the scenarios that you describe without facts to back them up. The responder above presents a valid scenario that is no different than 15-20 years ago, college women with proper skills/looks/aptitude, might go work at the few strip clubs/bikini bars in the Bay Area while going to college. I recall, while in college, being surprised by the roommate of a friend (who was a very good student) pulling in what was more than the highest CS grad made out of school when I graduated. Exploitation is one thing, but this immediate jump to everything is exploitation is what leads to things like this particular law getting passed. Generalizations without facts.
  - BadassFractal 9y ago
    As one sugar baby explained to me: I can either work crazy hours for minimum wage at Dairy Queen all month and barely cover rent and food. Or I can have an older guy take me to a Michelin star restaurant and hook up with him, and I'm set for the month in a span of a couple of hours. Have a couple of them on the hook and you're now in the luxury lifestyle territory which most people can only dream of. It's an interesting conversation. We're ok with people doing extremely dangerous and abusive jobs for shitty pay. Miners, people roaming the sewers, people welding beams hundreds of feet in the air. Those are fine. But you give someone head for thousands of dollars so you don't have to flip burgers at McDonald's while you're in college, and suddenly you're a poor victim to stand up for.
bussiere 9y ago
There will never a ideal society where everyone can eat and study for free. You're just removing one option for people ... And when you re in trouble the more option you have the better. First get an idealistic society where everyone can eat and have free education then we can discuss about removing this option ... It 's like putting the cart before the horse
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- jadedhacker 9y ago
  On the other hand, if we thought more critically, we'd realize both of those things are possible. In Europe people do have free education. We waste more food than we have hungry people. 1+1=2 ;) Lots of people tell you not to dream big. It's ok to do it and to believe it's achievable.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Dream big. Ignore those who tell you not to. It slows you down from accomplishing what others believe impossible.
bilbo0s 9y ago
??? What about mining, or Walmart third shift stock work by "...adults who have no other choice..."? Do you oppose them?
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  The world is not black and white. Everything is shades of gray. Some exploitation is more heinous than others. If you’re chained to your 9 to 5, it sucks, but it’s not the end of the world. If you’re a UN peacekeeper using candy to lure children into sexual relationships and then abandoning them and your resulting offspring (example taken from real world events), that is psycho/sociopath level exploitation. If you’re a single mom and the landlord is harrasing you for sex to pay the rent, is that okay? Where do you place that on the exploitation scale?
  - bilbo0s 9y ago
    ??? So men or women in the Congo, let's say someplace like Goma... forced by warlords, let's say someone like Nkunda, to go into the mines... or die... is less exploitative than a landlord asking a tenant for sex in your eyes? Question was rhetorical. You obviously have a problem with the sexual dimension of the exploitation, and the people of eastern Congo don't face the choice of going into the mines or dying. It's Nkunda... he offed them anyway, but they got to live a little longer if they went into the mines.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    >If you’re a single mom and the landlord is harrasing you for sex to pay the rent, is that okay? Where do you place that on the exploitation scale? No one should be harassed. I would rather the woman have the option of selling sex in a clean work environment with healthcare and some say in who she sells to than having to choose between sleeping with her landlord or being homeless.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - ImSkeptical 9y ago
CryptoPunk 9y ago
>>when do we expand that to adults who have no other choice? It’s not free will if your only other option is homelessness or to starve. But depriving them of the option of providing sexual services for pay is not protecting them. The alternative, as you point out, is homelessness or to starve, and they would only choose the option of prostitution when they perceive it as less undesirable than these outcomes. So you'd be forcing people into circumstances that they perceive as worse than prostitution, since in every other case, they would not be choosing prostitution anyway.

ryanmarsh 9y ago

theredpill promotes violence? I've lurked long enough to wonder why people say that. I'm sure you can cherry pick some comments but to say the sub promotes violence? It just doesn't stand up to real life. Most of the subs that people say horrible things about I go seek out to find out the real story and find out the mods might have their work cut out for them but they work hard to stay in the community guidelines. A thankless task for sure.

BadassFractal 9y ago
The worst examples of theredpill are very similar to the worst examples of modern radical feminism. The whole "men/white people must die" contingent you see on tumblr. If you can ignore them and still take feminism seriously, you can ignore the crazies on TRP as well. Let's relax with the double standard.
- stagbeetle 9y ago
  Hush now, all of you. This isn't one of the per-approved topics you can discuss. Lest yee fancy the wrath of mang.
- jadedhacker 9y ago
  The reason why people don't take Tumblr seriously is because white males like myself are a socially dominant and often armed plurality of the country. It's also kind of farcical to think of women eliminating men, society would dissolve in a generation, so it's easy to regard this kind of talk as simply sublimated angst that is an exaggerated response to real concerns. However, when this kind of talk comes from the socially dominant and aforementioned armed folk, it is much more of a serious matter simply because we have a history of actually doing the kinds of violent, enslaving, and oppressive things we claim we'll do. There's the asymmetry.
  - cup-of-tea 9y ago
    > It's also kind of farcical to think of women eliminating men If you actually scratch beneath the surface of TRP you'll see that the concern is not "women eliminating men" but men elminating other men and women being complicit in that.

xkcd-sucks 9y ago

Of course they did-- Prostitutes, johns and pimps are sex criminals, just like pedophiles. Providing a platform for sex criminals is harmful to Society.

3131s 9y ago
Huh, are you really this dense? Yes, they're criminals, because sex work is currently illegal (in the US at least). If it were not illegal, they would no longer be criminals. So how about we legalize it, then they won't be "sex criminals", and then you can stop crying about how your ideal authoritarian "Society" is crumbling because people are free to engage in consensual sex.

cup-of-tea 9y ago

I'm sure every sub contains "sexual deviants". You probably stood next to one at the bus stop the other day too! I don't know what braincels is but saying TRP promotes violence is a straight up lie.

AckSyn 9y ago

You're sadly misinformed as TRP doesn't promote violence one bit.

erispoe 9y ago
theredpill is built around helping men trick women into having sex with them when they otherwise would not. That's sexual violence by definition.
- pritishc 9y ago
  That's PUA, not TRP. TRP is built around helping a man survive and get about in today's world. Sex is one part, often talked about, but one part. One of the differences is that PUA doesn't help men get over the NiceGuy mentality. But if you want to be pedantic, sure..
- esarbe 9y ago
  I disagree. That's seduction, by definition. After all, you are figuring out how to behave so that a member of the other sex wants to have intercourse with you.
- alien_at_work 9y ago
  Flagged. This comment is so awful, ignorant and offensive (especially to actual victims of sexual violence!). Wow, how on earth does someone come up with such a ludicrus, insane oppinion. Please learn what words (e.g. violence) mean before attempting to use them in conversation.