4 ms·

openness isn't zero with Android, e.g. you can install alternative app stores.

by jhasse 9y ago

michaelmrose 9y ago
You mean where the ones where the apps you want don't exist or the one which works on Amazon. Apt sources don't require permission to use them with a particular device.
- jhasse 9y ago
  Still more apps than in iOS's alternative app stores.
ocdtrekkie 9y ago
What percentage of apps are available on third party app stores? Openness isn't zero with Android, it's just an obscene fractional portion that might as well be zero.
- jhasse 9y ago
  Often you can sideload the ones you're missing. Also there's the AOSP. And openness to use a custom launcher, browser engine, overlays, ...
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    AOSP is crippled/barely functional due to parts being abandoned in favor of Google Apps. And as far as sideloading, where are you supposed to get the apps? The Play Store won't let you download them off the web, because that would let them out of the walled garden. Most companies won't link their APKs, they just link you to the Play Store. You might get lucky and it's popular enough to be on APKMirror, but there's really not a "good" way to sideload. Oh, and most apps require Play Services to run now, and won't work even if you do sideload them.
    - jhasse 9y ago
      Never said it's perfect, just not "zero".
      - michaelmrose 9y ago
        Its close enough to zero and getting worse not improving. Its time for people who care about making things stop trying to make things with android and ditch the platform.
realusername 9y ago
Until I can download an iso and reinstall any phone with it like Ubuntu on a laptop, we might as well call it not open. The current situation is just a hacky Windows XP-like mess which still has some open-source bits in it for legacy reasons.
- jhasse 9y ago
  That has nothing to do with Android, but with the hardware (ARM, SoCs, ...). There are also laptops where you can't install Ubuntu btw, still it's "more open" than Android.
  - realusername 9y ago
    > That has nothing to do with Android, but with the hardware (ARM, SoCs, ...). Google has way enough power to dictate standards, for most companies, not having access to the Play Store is assured death. > There are also laptops where you can't install Ubuntu btw There's very few then, I don't know any personally.
    - jhasse 9y ago
      > Google has way enough power to dictate standards, for most companies, not having access to the Play Store is assured death. Still it would require the hardware to change, not Android. But you're right that Google could do something about it if it wanted to. So blame Google, not Android ;) > There's very few then, I don't know any personally. The Lenovo Yoga 900 was an example. Linux was (or still is? Dunno) missing the required RAID drivers to boot at all. Also keep in mind that Ubuntu requires binary blobs to work correctly, how many depends on the hardware. This means that Ubuntu isn't 100% open either and that "openness" isn't binary, otherwise Ubuntu would be "not open" in the same way Windows and macOS are, which obviously isn't the case.
      - realusername 9y ago
        > Still it would require the hardware to change, not Android. But you're right that Google could do something about it if it wanted to. So blame Google, not Android ;) That's a bit of semantic but yeah Google is 100% responsible of the hacky mess of the Android landscape nowadays. Also the ROMs themselves (even official ones) are looking more like the hacking days of WinXP themes than anything remotely well designed. > This means that Ubuntu isn't 100% open either and that "openness" isn't binary, otherwise Ubuntu would be "not open" in the same way Windows and macOS are, which obviously isn't the case. Yeah for sure Ubuntu isn't 100% open, but at least the proprietary parts tend to reduce in the long run and there's ways to debug it. If you cannot even run the OS on the hardware without using some buffer overflows in the first place, that's another level. I would like an Android distribution which could run on 98% of the Android smartphones without much work, we're pretty far from that.

openness isn't zero with Android, e.g. you can install alternative app stores.

by jhasse 9y ago

openness isn't zero with Android, e.g. you can install alternative app stores.

You mean where the ones where the apps you want don't exist or the one which works on Amazon. Apt sources don't require permission to use them with a particular device.

jhasse 9y ago
Still more apps than in iOS's alternative app stores.

ocdtrekkie 9y ago

What percentage of apps are available on third party app stores? Openness isn't zero with Android, it's just an obscene fractional portion that might as well be zero.

jhasse 9y ago
Often you can sideload the ones you're missing. Also there's the AOSP. And openness to use a custom launcher, browser engine, overlays, ...
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  AOSP is crippled/barely functional due to parts being abandoned in favor of Google Apps. And as far as sideloading, where are you supposed to get the apps? The Play Store won't let you download them off the web, because that would let them out of the walled garden. Most companies won't link their APKs, they just link you to the Play Store. You might get lucky and it's popular enough to be on APKMirror, but there's really not a "good" way to sideload. Oh, and most apps require Play Services to run now, and won't work even if you do sideload them.
  - jhasse 9y ago
    Never said it's perfect, just not "zero".
    - michaelmrose 9y ago
      Its close enough to zero and getting worse not improving. Its time for people who care about making things stop trying to make things with android and ditch the platform.

realusername 9y ago

Until I can download an iso and reinstall any phone with it like Ubuntu on a laptop, we might as well call it not open. The current situation is just a hacky Windows XP-like mess which still has some open-source bits in it for legacy reasons.

jhasse 9y ago
That has nothing to do with Android, but with the hardware (ARM, SoCs, ...). There are also laptops where you can't install Ubuntu btw, still it's "more open" than Android.
- realusername 9y ago
  > That has nothing to do with Android, but with the hardware (ARM, SoCs, ...). Google has way enough power to dictate standards, for most companies, not having access to the Play Store is assured death. > There are also laptops where you can't install Ubuntu btw There's very few then, I don't know any personally.
  - jhasse 9y ago
    > Google has way enough power to dictate standards, for most companies, not having access to the Play Store is assured death. Still it would require the hardware to change, not Android. But you're right that Google could do something about it if it wanted to. So blame Google, not Android ;) > There's very few then, I don't know any personally. The Lenovo Yoga 900 was an example. Linux was (or still is? Dunno) missing the required RAID drivers to boot at all. Also keep in mind that Ubuntu requires binary blobs to work correctly, how many depends on the hardware. This means that Ubuntu isn't 100% open either and that "openness" isn't binary, otherwise Ubuntu would be "not open" in the same way Windows and macOS are, which obviously isn't the case.
    - realusername 9y ago
      > Still it would require the hardware to change, not Android. But you're right that Google could do something about it if it wanted to. So blame Google, not Android ;) That's a bit of semantic but yeah Google is 100% responsible of the hacky mess of the Android landscape nowadays. Also the ROMs themselves (even official ones) are looking more like the hacking days of WinXP themes than anything remotely well designed. > This means that Ubuntu isn't 100% open either and that "openness" isn't binary, otherwise Ubuntu would be "not open" in the same way Windows and macOS are, which obviously isn't the case. Yeah for sure Ubuntu isn't 100% open, but at least the proprietary parts tend to reduce in the long run and there's ways to debug it. If you cannot even run the OS on the hardware without using some buffer overflows in the first place, that's another level. I would like an Android distribution which could run on 98% of the Android smartphones without much work, we're pretty far from that.