4 ms·

> The vast majority of my 2nd Amendment-supporting friends seem to support Trump, whose authoritarian statements and actions are like nothing seen in a US Pres

> The vast majority of my 2nd Amendment-supporting friends seem to support Trump, whose authoritarian statements and actions are like nothing seen in a US President. Except for Obama, you mean? Trump hasn't done anything so far that Obama hasn't also done.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> Trump hasn't done anything so far that Obama hasn't also done. This is obviously literally false (virtually all of Trump's official acts have been things that Obama did not do), and I can't see any obvious relevant non-literal sense where it is true. Even in a narrow sense of authoritarian approaches to gun rights, the Trump bump stock ban is an action that was specifically rejected by the Obama Administration, not on policy grounds, but because it exceeded the power of the executive branch without legislative change.
- the_trapper 9y ago
  When I think of authoritarian Presidential actions, I think more of drone striking U.S. citizens without due process. [1] However, you're right the bump stock ban does feel like an overreach of the executive branch. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > When I think of authoritarian Presidential actions, I think more of drone striking U.S. citizens without due process. The power of the President to wage war under a Congressional authorization, including when those fighting for the enemy include US citizens, is pretty firmly established. It's one of the reasons you really don't want Congress passing ludicrously broad authorizations and leaving them in force permanently.
- ropeadopepope 9y ago
  > virtually all of Trump's official acts have been things that Obama did not do examples?
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    For one, the Muslim ban. But really, everything. Other than trivial descriptions of ceremonial functions (“issued a Christmas proclamation”), and possibly some periodic renewals, there's not a lot that is remotely the same.
    - ropeadopepope 9y ago
      https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-mocks-trump-but-has-barred-immigrants-many-muslim-6-times https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-mocks-trump-but-has...
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        Yes, and? All of those are different, narrower, and conduct-based bans not the same thing as (or even a similar thing to) any version of Trump's Muslim ban.
        ropeadopepope 9y ago
        They're one and the same. In fact, when Obama made his bans, it was unprecedented and it went unchallenged. I could provide you with more examples, but this one is illustrative of the fact that you choose the facts that fit your narrative and ignore the rest. You are fake news.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> Trump hasn't done anything so far that Obama hasn't also done. This is obviously literally false (virtually all of Trump's official acts have been things that Obama did not do), and I can't see any obvious relevant non-literal sense where it is true. Even in a narrow sense of authoritarian approaches to gun rights, the Trump bump stock ban is an action that was specifically rejected by the Obama Administration, not on policy grounds, but because it exceeded the power of the executive branch without legislative change.

the_trapper 9y ago
When I think of authoritarian Presidential actions, I think more of drone striking U.S. citizens without due process. [1] However, you're right the bump stock ban does feel like an overreach of the executive branch. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > When I think of authoritarian Presidential actions, I think more of drone striking U.S. citizens without due process. The power of the President to wage war under a Congressional authorization, including when those fighting for the enemy include US citizens, is pretty firmly established. It's one of the reasons you really don't want Congress passing ludicrously broad authorizations and leaving them in force permanently.
ropeadopepope 9y ago
> virtually all of Trump's official acts have been things that Obama did not do examples?
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  For one, the Muslim ban. But really, everything. Other than trivial descriptions of ceremonial functions (“issued a Christmas proclamation”), and possibly some periodic renewals, there's not a lot that is remotely the same.
  - ropeadopepope 9y ago
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-mocks-trump-but-has-barred-immigrants-many-muslim-6-times https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-mocks-trump-but-has...
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      Yes, and? All of those are different, narrower, and conduct-based bans not the same thing as (or even a similar thing to) any version of Trump's Muslim ban.
      - ropeadopepope 9y ago
        They're one and the same. In fact, when Obama made his bans, it was unprecedented and it went unchallenged. I could provide you with more examples, but this one is illustrative of the fact that you choose the facts that fit your narrative and ignore the rest. You are fake news.