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This brings me full circle to a thought that used to distract me from my trigonometry class in high-school: how do I know the color “blue” that I see is the sam

by gdubs 9y ago

This brings me full circle to a thought that used to distract me from my trigonometry class in high-school: how do I know the color “blue” that I see is the same one my friend sees? This interview was a good read - the computer “desktop” metaphor made the central idea click for me. Half-baked Monday association but I’ll throw it out there anyway. Seems to be describing reality in a way that I’ve heard some zen Buddhists describe reality — instead of separate objects, you have one connected consciousness and individuals are just points on a plane (wave?).

strkek 9y ago
> how do I know the color “blue” that I see is the same one my friend sees? This. Also "how do I know the words I hear sound the same to you?". Mindblowing stuff.
- manjushri 9y ago
  >Also "how do I know the words I hear sound the same to you?" I have a theory that this simple problem is the root of the majority of social conflicts. Terrence Mckenna once described this problem: "As primates we have an incredible ability to make small mouth noises. We can do this for up to 6 hours at a stretch without tiring. No other thing that we can do approaches the level of variation with low energy investment that the small mouth noises do... But the problem with the small mouth noises form of communication is: I have a thought. I look in a dictionary that I have created out of my life experience. I map the thought onto the dictionary. I make the requisite small mouth noises. They cross physical space. They enter your ear. You look in your dictionary, which is different from my dictionary. But if we speak what we call the same language it will be close enough that you will sort of understand what I mean. Now if I don't say to you, "what do I mean"? You and I will go gaily off in the assumption that we understand each other. But If I say to you, "did you understand what I said then?" You say "yes, you meant that you don’t want to sit with Harry and Sally because their pending divorce makes you uncomfortable." And then I say "no that’s not what I meant! I meant..." So there’s misunderstanding because the dictionaries are not matched. Now, notice what’s happening with the octopi, there is no dictionary, both parties are seeing the same thing because my body is my meaning. I become my meaning and you behold the meaning I have become. I am like a naked thought, not even a naked nervous system, more naked than that, I am like a naked thought in aqueous space unfolding in time. I maintain this is why octopi eject clouds of ink, it's so they can have private thoughts because if you can be seen you can be understood. Well this is a perfect model condoned by nature for the kind of transformation that we want to lead our culture towards."
manjushri 9y ago
Imagine a multidimensional spider's web in the early morning covered with dew drops. And every dew drop contains the reflection of all the other dew drops. And, in each reflected dew drop, the reflections of all the other dew drops in that reflection. And so ad infinitum. That is the Buddhist conception of the universe in an image." –Alan Watts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra%27s_net https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra%27s_net
- ShabbosGoy 9y ago
  Perhaps this is an apt metaphor for the human mind as well.
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  Indra's Net. Older than dirt or Buddhism. It is shown in the few surviving Sanskrit tracts too. The problem with the concept is that it is not constructive not prescriptive.

by gdubs 9y ago

strkek 9y ago

> how do I know the color “blue” that I see is the same one my friend sees? This. Also "how do I know the words I hear sound the same to you?". Mindblowing stuff.

manjushri 9y ago
>Also "how do I know the words I hear sound the same to you?" I have a theory that this simple problem is the root of the majority of social conflicts. Terrence Mckenna once described this problem: "As primates we have an incredible ability to make small mouth noises. We can do this for up to 6 hours at a stretch without tiring. No other thing that we can do approaches the level of variation with low energy investment that the small mouth noises do... But the problem with the small mouth noises form of communication is: I have a thought. I look in a dictionary that I have created out of my life experience. I map the thought onto the dictionary. I make the requisite small mouth noises. They cross physical space. They enter your ear. You look in your dictionary, which is different from my dictionary. But if we speak what we call the same language it will be close enough that you will sort of understand what I mean. Now if I don't say to you, "what do I mean"? You and I will go gaily off in the assumption that we understand each other. But If I say to you, "did you understand what I said then?" You say "yes, you meant that you don’t want to sit with Harry and Sally because their pending divorce makes you uncomfortable." And then I say "no that’s not what I meant! I meant..." So there’s misunderstanding because the dictionaries are not matched. Now, notice what’s happening with the octopi, there is no dictionary, both parties are seeing the same thing because my body is my meaning. I become my meaning and you behold the meaning I have become. I am like a naked thought, not even a naked nervous system, more naked than that, I am like a naked thought in aqueous space unfolding in time. I maintain this is why octopi eject clouds of ink, it's so they can have private thoughts because if you can be seen you can be understood. Well this is a perfect model condoned by nature for the kind of transformation that we want to lead our culture towards."

manjushri 9y ago

Imagine a multidimensional spider's web in the early morning covered with dew drops. And every dew drop contains the reflection of all the other dew drops. And, in each reflected dew drop, the reflections of all the other dew drops in that reflection. And so ad infinitum. That is the Buddhist conception of the universe in an image." –Alan Watts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra%27s_net https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra%27s_net

ShabbosGoy 9y ago
Perhaps this is an apt metaphor for the human mind as well.
AstralStorm 9y ago
Indra's Net. Older than dirt or Buddhism. It is shown in the few surviving Sanskrit tracts too. The problem with the concept is that it is not constructive not prescriptive.