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Most young people do need to be more thoughtful about their money, though. And the economy as a whole is, by multiple different metrics, the best it’s ever been

Most young people do need to be more thoughtful about their money, though. And the economy as a whole is, by multiple different metrics, the best it’s ever been. It’s just that this greatness needs to be spread a bit wider. In the capitalist system with a labor market as tight as we’ve ever seen it this is addressed by getting another job for more money. Now is a good time to do it. You are responsible for your own success.

bsder 9y ago
> In the capitalist system with a labor market as tight as we’ve ever seen it this is addressed by getting another job for more money. Is it tight? I see very few occupations with rising wages. That's the REAL test for a tight labor market. Let me be anecdotal for a moment ... I was at a conference recently where the companies had a panel session complaining about getting more people into the business. Unlike most software disciplines, they really do have an infeed problem. In addition, they are also getting poached and losing their junior guys from the shop floor. Okay, think I, I was a hiring manager in the DotCom Boom(tm), I understand getting poached in a narrow field. So, do you know who their primary opponents are? Amazon and Foxconn. Two of the worst employers on the planet. You are losing employees from your manufacturing line to Amazon warehousing and Foxconn manufacturing. Um, please go bankrupt and may your industry die in a fire if you treat people so badly as to lose them to Amazon and Foxconn.
- throwaway84742 9y ago
  Wages are rising at the highest rate since 2009: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/02/582641530/u-s-economy-added-200-000-jobs-in-january https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/02/582641530.... And black unemployment is at historic lows a well.
  - AstralStorm 9y ago
    Rates do not matter unless they are over big time scales. You have conveniently picked a year just past the banking crisis... Does the absolute inflation and purchasing power adjusted value even match 90s?
    - throwaway84742 9y ago
      Sounds to me like you’ve already made up your mind if “rates do not matter”. Because objectively they do.
      - AnimalMuppet 9y ago
        AstralStorm's point is somewhat divergent from the thread of the conversation. It is that, for playing "catch-up" to years of wage stagnation, this month's wage growth rate doesn't mean much. We need years of high wage growth, not just one month or even one year. In this sense, AstralStorm is right that instantaneous rates do not in fact matter. And you sound like you're going to just label everyone who disagrees with you as having their mind already made up, rather than actually thinking about what they say. That said, the original discussion was about the rate of wage growth as a measure of how tight the labor market is. In that sense, the instantaneous rate is fine. So why am I harassing you about your answer to AstralStorm, when AstralStorm was disagreeing based on something that was outside the scope of the discussion at hand? Because of the way you answered, with dismissiveness rather than actually thinking about the point raised. That's not cool.
    - sokoloff 9y ago
      > Does the absolute inflation and purchasing power adjusted value even match 90s? Yes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16682711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16682711 for references. (Wages rising slightly faster than inflation over decades long period.)
  - s73v3r_ 9y ago
    That's not a meaningful stat, considering 2009 was the onset of the Great Recession. Wages are still not great.
danudey 9y ago
The economy is the best its ever been, but wealth inequality is the worst its ever been. The cost of living has gone up far, far faster than income has, while wages have stagnated or dropped, meaning people these days are earning less money and have more expenses than before. To hear someone who was making $10/hour out of college and bought a home for $40,000 say that the reason millennials can't buy a home today is because they're buying avocado toast and not because equivalent homes cost $1.6 million today is infuriating. Relatively speaking, millennials are doing better, frugally, than baby boomers were (saving more, spending less, etc), but the cost of the things that people are complaining about has grown exponentially. Meanwhile, almost all of the growth of the economy has gone towards the top 1% of people. If you look at, for example, Canada, the average CEO makes as much by January 2nd as the average worker does by December 31st. CEO pay growth over the last few decades has skyrocketed (compared to inflation, worker wages, or even corporate profits), while worker wages basically track inflation. In other words, people are making the same amount of money as people 50 years ago, even though a lot of things cost more (e.g. housing). Blaming the economy inequality on the fact that people aren't willing to take on second jobs ignores the fact that wealth and power is all being concentrated in a small number of people and the rest of us are forced to fight over what they're willing to leave behind for everyone else.
- throwaway84742 9y ago
  Demand more money. You’re now in a position to do so.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  Do you actually care about the well-being of the poor, or do you just hate the rich? Because you seem much more concerned about the relative difference between the rich and the poor than you do about the nominal well-being of anyone. Population densities have increased and it's more expensive to live in cities. That's for sure. We opened up free trade which gave the American middle class a minor kick in the pants at the expense of bringing huge swaths of India and China up to a position of basic food security, increased healthcare, education, and just about every other measurement of well-being you can think of. Your essential argument is that from a relative perspective the American middle class is not as well off as it was during a unique time following WWII during which the American middle class reached the highest levels of relative wealth in the history of the planet. Okay, but they're still nominally better off than they were back then and an almost unimaginable number of people have had their lives dramatically improved across the globe in the process.
CocaKoala 9y ago
"The economy is doing great, all you need to do to flourish is work a second job in addition to your first one!"
- throwaway84742 9y ago
  I didn’t say a “second” job. I suggested to merely change the one people have right now. In my experience this is by far the surest way to increase one’s compensation. Do this once every 2 years, it adds up.

bsder 9y ago

> In the capitalist system with a labor market as tight as we’ve ever seen it this is addressed by getting another job for more money. Is it tight? I see very few occupations with rising wages. That's the REAL test for a tight labor market. Let me be anecdotal for a moment ... I was at a conference recently where the companies had a panel session complaining about getting more people into the business. Unlike most software disciplines, they really do have an infeed problem. In addition, they are also getting poached and losing their junior guys from the shop floor. Okay, think I, I was a hiring manager in the DotCom Boom(tm), I understand getting poached in a narrow field. So, do you know who their primary opponents are? Amazon and Foxconn. Two of the worst employers on the planet. You are losing employees from your manufacturing line to Amazon warehousing and Foxconn manufacturing. Um, please go bankrupt and may your industry die in a fire if you treat people so badly as to lose them to Amazon and Foxconn.

throwaway84742 9y ago
Wages are rising at the highest rate since 2009: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/02/582641530/u-s-economy-added-200-000-jobs-in-january https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/02/582641530.... And black unemployment is at historic lows a well.
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  Rates do not matter unless they are over big time scales. You have conveniently picked a year just past the banking crisis... Does the absolute inflation and purchasing power adjusted value even match 90s?
  - throwaway84742 9y ago
    Sounds to me like you’ve already made up your mind if “rates do not matter”. Because objectively they do.
    - AnimalMuppet 9y ago
      AstralStorm's point is somewhat divergent from the thread of the conversation. It is that, for playing "catch-up" to years of wage stagnation, this month's wage growth rate doesn't mean much. We need years of high wage growth, not just one month or even one year. In this sense, AstralStorm is right that instantaneous rates do not in fact matter. And you sound like you're going to just label everyone who disagrees with you as having their mind already made up, rather than actually thinking about what they say. That said, the original discussion was about the rate of wage growth as a measure of how tight the labor market is. In that sense, the instantaneous rate is fine. So why am I harassing you about your answer to AstralStorm, when AstralStorm was disagreeing based on something that was outside the scope of the discussion at hand? Because of the way you answered, with dismissiveness rather than actually thinking about the point raised. That's not cool.
  - sokoloff 9y ago
    > Does the absolute inflation and purchasing power adjusted value even match 90s? Yes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16682711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16682711 for references. (Wages rising slightly faster than inflation over decades long period.)
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  That's not a meaningful stat, considering 2009 was the onset of the Great Recession. Wages are still not great.

danudey 9y ago

The economy is the best its ever been, but wealth inequality is the worst its ever been. The cost of living has gone up far, far faster than income has, while wages have stagnated or dropped, meaning people these days are earning less money and have more expenses than before. To hear someone who was making $10/hour out of college and bought a home for $40,000 say that the reason millennials can't buy a home today is because they're buying avocado toast and not because equivalent homes cost $1.6 million today is infuriating. Relatively speaking, millennials are doing better, frugally, than baby boomers were (saving more, spending less, etc), but the cost of the things that people are complaining about has grown exponentially. Meanwhile, almost all of the growth of the economy has gone towards the top 1% of people. If you look at, for example, Canada, the average CEO makes as much by January 2nd as the average worker does by December 31st. CEO pay growth over the last few decades has skyrocketed (compared to inflation, worker wages, or even corporate profits), while worker wages basically track inflation. In other words, people are making the same amount of money as people 50 years ago, even though a lot of things cost more (e.g. housing). Blaming the economy inequality on the fact that people aren't willing to take on second jobs ignores the fact that wealth and power is all being concentrated in a small number of people and the rest of us are forced to fight over what they're willing to leave behind for everyone else.

throwaway84742 9y ago
Demand more money. You’re now in a position to do so.
Consultant32452 9y ago
Do you actually care about the well-being of the poor, or do you just hate the rich? Because you seem much more concerned about the relative difference between the rich and the poor than you do about the nominal well-being of anyone. Population densities have increased and it's more expensive to live in cities. That's for sure. We opened up free trade which gave the American middle class a minor kick in the pants at the expense of bringing huge swaths of India and China up to a position of basic food security, increased healthcare, education, and just about every other measurement of well-being you can think of. Your essential argument is that from a relative perspective the American middle class is not as well off as it was during a unique time following WWII during which the American middle class reached the highest levels of relative wealth in the history of the planet. Okay, but they're still nominally better off than they were back then and an almost unimaginable number of people have had their lives dramatically improved across the globe in the process.

CocaKoala 9y ago

"The economy is doing great, all you need to do to flourish is work a second job in addition to your first one!"

throwaway84742 9y ago
I didn’t say a “second” job. I suggested to merely change the one people have right now. In my experience this is by far the surest way to increase one’s compensation. Do this once every 2 years, it adds up.