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Interesting followup by Seth Abramson. https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/978329921192906752 https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/978329921192906752

CobrastanJorji 9y ago
Thanks for that; that was a much more comprehensible summary.
draw_down 9y ago
This is why I have trouble believing much will come of this, besides all the other petty corruption and dishonesty we've seen which has had essentially no effect. It's a real bummer.
tptacek 9y ago
Seth Abramson sure is someone to talk about poor journalism and analysis. Really: HN doesn't need to be the first to break out stories like this. If someone important has been found here, someone will cover it seriously outside of tweets. HN should start penalizing tweet stories.
- ExactoKnight 9y ago
  Why would HN penalize tweet links!? Hacker news is a perfect place for stories that intersect technical and journalistic expertise to be explored more in depth with a focus on truth. In journalism tweets are how evidence of a story evolves. Taking away twitter linking from journalistic minded HN users would be like taking away the ability for a coder to link to github...
FLUX-YOU 9y ago
He discounts the importance of figuring out how modern election data shops work (and what tools they use/build) with regards to elections, which may be important for us to fight these firms down the road and build laws against unscrupulous data collection. The mechanical details definitely matter here, and that can be found by looking at source code. I don't necessarily agree that gizmodo should have led with tying this open repository of code to AIQ/SCL/CA to Bannon/Trump/Russia. Finding the tools and explaining what they do was more important given this was found today. It's not like they can't write follow-up articles which explain the larger issues.
zzzeek 9y ago
please don't retweet Seth Abramson, he is a manipulative conspiracy theorist which is not something that helps the liberal cause: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/12/06/people-cant-stop-reading-a-professors-theory-of-a-trump-russia-conspiracy-true-or-not/?utm_term=.1d62b6137db9 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/12... https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/04/stop-listening-to-seth-abramson-on-donald-trumps-r.html https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/04/stop-listenin... https://thinkprogress.org/blue-detectives-collapse-trump-russia-a42a94537bdf/ https://thinkprogress.org/blue-detectives-collapse-trump-rus...
- jtsnow 9y ago
  Yet he has been cited [1] by and contacted by congress for his research on pro-Trump FBI agents leaking to True Pundit. It seems that the media can't make up their mind about him either: At times, discrediting him; other times, recommending his work. [2] [1] https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judiciary.house.gov/files/documents/Letter%20to%20AG%20and%20DAG%20-%20Dec%2011.pdf https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judici... [2] https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/971909060294561792 https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/971909060294561792
  - zzzeek 9y ago
    It looks like they cite him because he happened to have a screenshot of some comments on another conspiracy website that may refer to actual information about something. So they are in fact poking at what they themselves call a "fringe conspiracy website" in that letter. This doesn't really indicate he's suddenly a serious journalist, just that they saw something in the conspiracy community that interested them.
    - jtsnow 9y ago
      That's a surprisingly dismissive reading. The first external source cited is Abramson. Every other source cited in the letter was also cited by Abramson in his original thread [1]. The letter summarizes Abramson's allegations: "The facts point to a coordinated effort by some in the FBI to change the course of the Clinton investigation by leaking sensitive information to the public, and by threatening to leak additional information after the investigation was closed." There are no two ways about it: Either Abramson is onto a huge story that hasn't been reported elsewhere -or- sitting members of congress take investigative actions based on the ramblings of an irresponsible conspiracy theorist. Both are concerning. [1] https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/939432544008921088.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/939432544008921088.html
danso 9y ago
Rebuttal by one of the reporters: https://twitter.com/dellcam/status/978345305635770368 https://twitter.com/dellcam/status/978345305635770368

CobrastanJorji 9y ago

Thanks for that; that was a much more comprehensible summary.

draw_down 9y ago

This is why I have trouble believing much will come of this, besides all the other petty corruption and dishonesty we've seen which has had essentially no effect. It's a real bummer.

tptacek 9y ago

Seth Abramson sure is someone to talk about poor journalism and analysis. Really: HN doesn't need to be the first to break out stories like this. If someone important has been found here, someone will cover it seriously outside of tweets. HN should start penalizing tweet stories.

ExactoKnight 9y ago
Why would HN penalize tweet links!? Hacker news is a perfect place for stories that intersect technical and journalistic expertise to be explored more in depth with a focus on truth. In journalism tweets are how evidence of a story evolves. Taking away twitter linking from journalistic minded HN users would be like taking away the ability for a coder to link to github...

FLUX-YOU 9y ago

He discounts the importance of figuring out how modern election data shops work (and what tools they use/build) with regards to elections, which may be important for us to fight these firms down the road and build laws against unscrupulous data collection. The mechanical details definitely matter here, and that can be found by looking at source code. I don't necessarily agree that gizmodo should have led with tying this open repository of code to AIQ/SCL/CA to Bannon/Trump/Russia. Finding the tools and explaining what they do was more important given this was found today. It's not like they can't write follow-up articles which explain the larger issues.

zzzeek 9y ago

please don't retweet Seth Abramson, he is a manipulative conspiracy theorist which is not something that helps the liberal cause: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/12/06/people-cant-stop-reading-a-professors-theory-of-a-trump-russia-conspiracy-true-or-not/?utm_term=.1d62b6137db9 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/12... https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/04/stop-listening-to-seth-abramson-on-donald-trumps-r.html https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/04/stop-listenin... https://thinkprogress.org/blue-detectives-collapse-trump-russia-a42a94537bdf/ https://thinkprogress.org/blue-detectives-collapse-trump-rus...

jtsnow 9y ago
Yet he has been cited [1] by and contacted by congress for his research on pro-Trump FBI agents leaking to True Pundit. It seems that the media can't make up their mind about him either: At times, discrediting him; other times, recommending his work. [2] [1] https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judiciary.house.gov/files/documents/Letter%20to%20AG%20and%20DAG%20-%20Dec%2011.pdf https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judici... [2] https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/971909060294561792 https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/971909060294561792
- zzzeek 9y ago
  It looks like they cite him because he happened to have a screenshot of some comments on another conspiracy website that may refer to actual information about something. So they are in fact poking at what they themselves call a "fringe conspiracy website" in that letter. This doesn't really indicate he's suddenly a serious journalist, just that they saw something in the conspiracy community that interested them.
  - jtsnow 9y ago
    That's a surprisingly dismissive reading. The first external source cited is Abramson. Every other source cited in the letter was also cited by Abramson in his original thread [1]. The letter summarizes Abramson's allegations: "The facts point to a coordinated effort by some in the FBI to change the course of the Clinton investigation by leaking sensitive information to the public, and by threatening to leak additional information after the investigation was closed." There are no two ways about it: Either Abramson is onto a huge story that hasn't been reported elsewhere -or- sitting members of congress take investigative actions based on the ramblings of an irresponsible conspiracy theorist. Both are concerning. [1] https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/939432544008921088.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/939432544008921088.html

danso 9y ago

Rebuttal by one of the reporters: https://twitter.com/dellcam/status/978345305635770368 https://twitter.com/dellcam/status/978345305635770368