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This line of reasoning seems to forget that the ultimate control belongs to the customer. Thus we see Facebook taking a big hit for collecting personal informat

by d0lph 9y ago

This line of reasoning seems to forget that the ultimate control belongs to the customer. Thus we see Facebook taking a big hit for collecting personal information people assumed was private.

WorldMaker 9y ago
The trouble being that customer is 1) an aggregate (there likely is no the customer, just some customers, maybe a lot of them), 2) fuzzy (Facebook's real customers are advertisers, they pay the bills). How do non-ad-buying users matter as customers to Facebook? Only so far as they are aggregate eyeballs to feed to the real customers, advertisers? The sad specter of case law dating at least as far back to Dodge v Ford [1], is that legally the only relationship that has to matter to a (US) business is its relationship with its shareholders. Consumer protections have only ever barely been carved out with regulatory action. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.
- d0lph 9y ago
  If you do something users don't like, they will leave if they want to, or else they don't care. > How do non-ad-buying users matter as customers to Facebook They are literally all Facebook has, eyeballs.
  - WorldMaker 9y ago
    Yes, but see point 1. Facebook only has eyeballs in aggregate, as statistics (to show/hide from advertisers as Facebook sees fit). What does one snowflake matter to the mountain? When is an avalanche visible to Facebook? When is that avalanche visible to its customers, the advertisers? (Directly: When it tells them, presumably. If it tells them. Indirectly: Through slow user studies, and Big Data analysis, presumably.)
    - d0lph 9y ago
      > When it tells them, presumably. Snowflakes don't matter, if only one Facebook user cares about their privacy, then Facebook shouldn't care. Is it a perfect system? No. But it is democratic.
notyourday 9y ago
Correct. The customer has no control what so ever until the company runs out of money operating at a loss ( no customers ) that it has and is unable to find a way to raise money from the existing shareholder or new shareholders. When that event happens, the company shareholder either change the company to get the customers or the company goes out of business and shareholders get wiped out.

by d0lph 9y ago

This line of reasoning seems to forget that the ultimate control belongs to the customer. Thus we see Facebook taking a big hit for collecting personal information people assumed was private.

WorldMaker 9y ago

The trouble being that customer is 1) an aggregate (there likely is no the customer, just some customers, maybe a lot of them), 2) fuzzy (Facebook's real customers are advertisers, they pay the bills). How do non-ad-buying users matter as customers to Facebook? Only so far as they are aggregate eyeballs to feed to the real customers, advertisers? The sad specter of case law dating at least as far back to Dodge v Ford [1], is that legally the only relationship that has to matter to a (US) business is its relationship with its shareholders. Consumer protections have only ever barely been carved out with regulatory action. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

d0lph 9y ago
If you do something users don't like, they will leave if they want to, or else they don't care. > How do non-ad-buying users matter as customers to Facebook They are literally all Facebook has, eyeballs.
- WorldMaker 9y ago
  Yes, but see point 1. Facebook only has eyeballs in aggregate, as statistics (to show/hide from advertisers as Facebook sees fit). What does one snowflake matter to the mountain? When is an avalanche visible to Facebook? When is that avalanche visible to its customers, the advertisers? (Directly: When it tells them, presumably. If it tells them. Indirectly: Through slow user studies, and Big Data analysis, presumably.)
  - d0lph 9y ago
    > When it tells them, presumably. Snowflakes don't matter, if only one Facebook user cares about their privacy, then Facebook shouldn't care. Is it a perfect system? No. But it is democratic.

notyourday 9y ago

Correct. The customer has no control what so ever until the company runs out of money operating at a loss ( no customers ) that it has and is unable to find a way to raise money from the existing shareholder or new shareholders. When that event happens, the company shareholder either change the company to get the customers or the company goes out of business and shareholders get wiped out.