4 ms·

Since the causes of autism are not really understood, it's defined and diagnosed based on behavior, or symptoms, if you will. Thus, is there an actual qualitati

Since the causes of autism are not really understood, it's defined and diagnosed based on behavior, or symptoms, if you will. Thus, is there an actual qualitative difference between "shy, socially anxious/clumsy" and autistic, except for the extent of those properties?

mercer 9y ago
Good question. A big difference between the former and the latter is that the former is mostly a social matter, while the latter can have a pronounced effect even on the isolated, personal aspects of a person (in particular, obsessiveness in interests, but a whole bunch of other things too).
loriverkutya 9y ago
Yes there is for example: "Hyper‐or hypo‐reactivity to sensory input or unusual interest in sensory aspects of environment" If you want to know more, read the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria about ASD: https://depts.washington.edu/dbpeds/Screening%20Tools/DSM-5%28ASD.Guidelines%29Feb2013.pdf https://depts.washington.edu/dbpeds/Screening%20Tools/DSM-5%...
gowld 9y ago
It's very easy to diagnose someone with extreme autism, just as it's easy to diagnose someone with extreme dwarfism. It's blurrier when you get to mild autism (and mild shortness) where there is less visible impairment, less obvious behavior, and often visible benefits.
- TomK32 9y ago
  I'm 1.93 and my knees make trouble. can you give me a diagnosis? :D I'm reading a book at the moment, in german, "Ich liebe einen Asperger" and even proper autism was barely recognized by people working with kids 15yrs ago: "... but it couldn't be Autism!?" is one quote from an educator about the family's most autistic child. Things probably haven't changed that much. One other thing, even though it is exhausting, kids on the spectrum try to mimic others, act normal etc just to get a good feedback. In the book it took months until the psychologist got through the kid's defenses and was certain about the diagnosis. It's sad really, so much frustration the family describe that could have been prevented.
  - gowld 9y ago
    "try to mimic others, act normal" is mild-to-moderate autism, and leads to challenges like not realizing that it's so much harder (in mental effort) for one person to perform behaviors that are so easy for most people. Severe autism has symptoms like nonverbality (unless treated with years of intensive communication therapy), extreme repetitive behaviors (tapping, bouncing, etc), and freakouts/meltdowns in response to unexpected situations and sensory inputs, of the sort of intensity and sensitivity well beyond what you'd see in the average person over the age of about 7years. In years past people might not have been able to pinpoint "autism", but disregarding the minor important of the label, it was still easy to see a lot of what was going on with the person with the condition. (Effective _treatment_ is of course much harder than mere diagnosis.)
sidlls 9y ago
Absolutely. The autistic person will effectively understand social cues only at an academic level, after effort teaching him or her. Autists can also be shy or not, by the way. They can interact freely and happily with others socially but miss cues in ways a shy person won't. For example, if a shy person has overcome their shyness and their play partner starts crying the shy person will empathize and possibly even try to get help, while the autistic person is as likely to simply walk away because their play partner is no longer providing stimulus. It's difficult to describe in a comment on HN, but even mildly autistic behavior in this regard is very obviously different from normal behavior.
petercooper 9y ago
Yes. I have recently been diagnosed and am not "shy" or "socially anxious" yet I tend to avoid social interactions because they don't tend to go well unless they have some sort of typical "script", or some sort of structure around them (e.g. an interview, MC-ing, a meeting). I could go into the differences in some depth but it may prove boring.
- TomK32 9y ago
  oh, peter cooper, haven't seen you since EuRuKo in Prague :) Do you still have those ruby shoes?
  - petercooper 9y ago
    No, they started to go rotten in a cupboard and got thrown out a few years ago.

mercer 9y ago

Good question. A big difference between the former and the latter is that the former is mostly a social matter, while the latter can have a pronounced effect even on the isolated, personal aspects of a person (in particular, obsessiveness in interests, but a whole bunch of other things too).

loriverkutya 9y ago

Yes there is for example: "Hyper‐or hypo‐reactivity to sensory input or unusual interest in sensory aspects of environment" If you want to know more, read the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria about ASD: https://depts.washington.edu/dbpeds/Screening%20Tools/DSM-5%28ASD.Guidelines%29Feb2013.pdf https://depts.washington.edu/dbpeds/Screening%20Tools/DSM-5%...

gowld 9y ago

It's very easy to diagnose someone with extreme autism, just as it's easy to diagnose someone with extreme dwarfism. It's blurrier when you get to mild autism (and mild shortness) where there is less visible impairment, less obvious behavior, and often visible benefits.

TomK32 9y ago
I'm 1.93 and my knees make trouble. can you give me a diagnosis? :D I'm reading a book at the moment, in german, "Ich liebe einen Asperger" and even proper autism was barely recognized by people working with kids 15yrs ago: "... but it couldn't be Autism!?" is one quote from an educator about the family's most autistic child. Things probably haven't changed that much. One other thing, even though it is exhausting, kids on the spectrum try to mimic others, act normal etc just to get a good feedback. In the book it took months until the psychologist got through the kid's defenses and was certain about the diagnosis. It's sad really, so much frustration the family describe that could have been prevented.
- gowld 9y ago
  "try to mimic others, act normal" is mild-to-moderate autism, and leads to challenges like not realizing that it's so much harder (in mental effort) for one person to perform behaviors that are so easy for most people. Severe autism has symptoms like nonverbality (unless treated with years of intensive communication therapy), extreme repetitive behaviors (tapping, bouncing, etc), and freakouts/meltdowns in response to unexpected situations and sensory inputs, of the sort of intensity and sensitivity well beyond what you'd see in the average person over the age of about 7years. In years past people might not have been able to pinpoint "autism", but disregarding the minor important of the label, it was still easy to see a lot of what was going on with the person with the condition. (Effective _treatment_ is of course much harder than mere diagnosis.)

sidlls 9y ago

Absolutely. The autistic person will effectively understand social cues only at an academic level, after effort teaching him or her. Autists can also be shy or not, by the way. They can interact freely and happily with others socially but miss cues in ways a shy person won't. For example, if a shy person has overcome their shyness and their play partner starts crying the shy person will empathize and possibly even try to get help, while the autistic person is as likely to simply walk away because their play partner is no longer providing stimulus. It's difficult to describe in a comment on HN, but even mildly autistic behavior in this regard is very obviously different from normal behavior.

petercooper 9y ago

Yes. I have recently been diagnosed and am not "shy" or "socially anxious" yet I tend to avoid social interactions because they don't tend to go well unless they have some sort of typical "script", or some sort of structure around them (e.g. an interview, MC-ing, a meeting). I could go into the differences in some depth but it may prove boring.

TomK32 9y ago
oh, peter cooper, haven't seen you since EuRuKo in Prague :) Do you still have those ruby shoes?
- petercooper 9y ago
  No, they started to go rotten in a cupboard and got thrown out a few years ago.